• There is too much racism in law enforcement and sentencing and government at all levels should mobilize to address this.
  • There is too much money in politics and Citizens United should be overturned.
  • There should be strict separation of Church and State in government and the Hobby Lobby decision should be overturned.
  • LGBTQ rights should be respected and those populations should be protected by government.
  • Global warming is real and American policy should be to combat global warming internationally and domestically, including by supporting the American renewable energy industry.
  • Womens' rights should be protected, particularly in the areas of choice, equal pay, equal access to promotions, and maternity issues.
  • Israel should withdraw from the settlements and/or compensate the Palestinians for them and the Palestinians should get a state.
  • America's (and the world's) wealth is way too polarized, so government should take steps to distribute wealth way more evenly than it is currently distributed.The wealthy should be taxed at higher rates.
  • All Americans should have health insurance, preferably single payer, and all Americans should have access to health care.
  • Minorities have their political, economic, and educational access artificially limited in all sorts of ways. Government should expend more effort on reversing this. 
  • High speed internet should be equally available to all Americans and net neutrality should not be replaced by a commercially based tiered system.
  • The firearms industry should face more regulation than it currently does in order to increase public safety, including requiring background checks on private firearm sales.
  • The petroleum industry should not be subsidized and should be held accountable for environmental damage. Environmentally dangerous and damaging actions by the petroleum industry should be curtailed, including fracking, pipelines in environmentally sensitive areas, and offshore drilling.
  • The environment in general should be more protected than it currently is, as seen in places like Flint, Michigan.
  • There is insufficient transparency in campaign funding, so we don't always know who is backing whom, and the public should have access to that information.
  • Government should respect the privacy of Americans and not spy on us.
  • Government should respect and protect the rights of Native Americans, including on issues involving pipelines routed through sacred areas. 
  • Government should not increase the privatization of government functions in general. Where privatization has started to occur, we should reverse that trend, including in prisons and military contracting. American highways should not be sold off to the private sector, nor should Federal lands. Social Security should under no circumstances be privatized. 
  • Antitrust actions should be used way more than they currently are.
  • There should be stricter FCC limits on how few companies can own how many media outlets in any given market. Standards used to be stricter and we should return to that. Media companies have become too powerful because they have become too close to monopolistic. 
  • Corporate officers who break the law, particularly in areas that cost taxpayers millions/billions, should be held personally responsible by the law. "Personally responsible" means doing time for egregious offenses, not just paying fines. Deterrents need to be significant enough to actually work.
  • Financially predatory practices and risky financial practices on the part of banking and insurance institutions should be heavily regulated. 
  • The government should not be in the business of supporting private k-12 education but should be in the business of supporting public education more, particularly in poor areas with insufficient tax bases to educate their kids adequately.
  • The Federal Government should hold States accountable for election practices that disenfranchise Black voters disproportionately.
  • The Federal Government should take action to end Gerrymandering. Districts must not be drawn by one political party.

How many of you can name half a dozen members of Our Salon who disagree with any of the above points?

The truth is that there is remarkable political unanimity on Our Salon when it comes to what people would like to see happen, with very few exceptions. Though there are a ton of political arguments here, that's not what they're about. They often pretend to be about allegedly assuming that others here don't hold these priorities, but that assumption is usually false. The arguments are sometimes about which of these priorities are more important to any given individual than others but the real core of most political arguments here involves how to get there. 

Sometimes it helps to remember that.

Views: 1173

Comment by JMac1949 Today on April 21, 2017 at 7:29am

I'm thinking that the politics of Our Salon is more a matter of degree in priorities.  There is some preaching to the Liberal choir here, but there's also a minority of legitimate conservative and pragmatic moderate views that show up in posts and comments.   Personally I lean toward a rational perspective that takes into account the pendulum swing of History rather than insisting on a progressive view of social evolution.  The election of the Beast "45," isn't a threat to civilization, but the result of the tone deaf politics of entitlement. We'll survive the next four years and if anyone in the Democratic Party is paying attention, things will begin to turn around in 2018 and 2020.

Comment by koshersalaami on April 21, 2017 at 8:07am


That politics here is more a matter of degree in priorities is one of my points. The other is what you allude to as "tone deaf" which is my personal grievance. As to conservative views, legitimate and illegitimate, I don't think you can find half a dozen people here who agree about them. 


What's paternalistic about making an observation? I'm not saying "This is what we should believe." I'm saying "This is what it looks to me that we do believe, and with something startlingly close to unanimity." You actually kind of proved my point. There are (I just counted, I hadn't before) twenty-five points here. You would probably say you rarely agreee with me and yet you found three to disagree with. Keep in mind that the Trump administration appears to disagree with all of them.

As to there barely being six people here regularly, there are six people on this thread. And in terms of the task I set, which might be able to be met, I didn't say "find six people who disagree with all of them" or even "find six people who disagree with most of them." I said "find six people who disagree with any of them." One out of twenty-five. You're telling me that should be difficult?

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 21, 2017 at 8:28am

You would probably say you rarely agreee with me and yet...

Thanks for proving MY point...  your post, and especially comments like ^^THAT^^ which attempt to tell ME what the hell I mean, are nothing if not paternalistic.   

I also don't have to disagree with everything you say to "disagree" with you.  I have no idea where the hell that came from other than your need to ALWAYS be right about EVERYTHING (which is another paternalistic trait.)

BTW, seeing as how you are so sure of yourself:  Who are all of the people here that agree that the Israeli's have a right to steal all of the best land in a region, then when FORCED to, swap what they stole for utter crap?... which is what you are proposing with your "and/or compensate the Palestinians for them"...  you don't get to steal something, then when the police catch you, offer to "buy it", but only if the victim will accept 5 cents on the dollar of value.  To think otherwise, is to express the exact same disgusting "manifest destiny"-ish white superiority that forced the Native Americans onto reservations where they could starve to death without upsetting "white" sensibilities.

Comment by koshersalaami on April 21, 2017 at 8:58am

Who said anything about Israel having the right to steal the best land? There's a possibility that a final agreement would involve a mix between land swaps and withdrawal from existing settlements. Why are you assuming acceptable compensation would be financial? The agreement might take a form other than straight universal withdrawal. I'm not a negotiator. My point did not include any "five cents on the dollar" crap - that's your assumption. 

In terms of my having to be right about everything being a paternalistic trait, that would make you far more paternalistic than I am. I admit being wrong here way more than you do. I put corrections not only into threads but I edit posts with corrections while being sure to point out that I made a correction rather than hiding it. The only time I remember you ever admitting a mistake was the time you called me a misogynist, you denied it, and I physically quoted you on it. 

Comment by Keith Joiner on April 21, 2017 at 9:11am

Kosh is right. If someone is being paternalistic here, it is you Amy. 

Comment by alsoknownas on April 21, 2017 at 10:15am


For just a second, I'd like to say that the engagement is futile. There won't be any give. So I wonder why bother?

As for you being misogynistic,  I'd think that if you were to show up in chat, repeatedly discussing women in videos and their body parts and what you would do to them if given half a chance, how you were drenched at the site of the images etc.etc., ...that if you would do that every day for a long, long time that you would still be in a distant 2nd or 3rd place in terms of being the most disrespectful person on the site in terms of how you view and objectify women.

So again, I wonder, why bother?

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 21, 2017 at 10:42am

If you were an Israeli F-16 (dropping bombs on Gaza), your last comment would be considered firing off chaff to distract from the question I fired at you, so I'll repeat it:

"Who are all of the people here that agree that the Israeli's have a right to steal all of the best land in a region, then when FORCED to, swap what they stole for utter crap?"

(and seeing as how the only "swap" option ever presented is giving the Palestinians the part of the Negev Desert which receives even less rainfall then even the West Bank, in exchange to the arable land that has been theirs for generations, you are also blowing smoke along with your "chaff")

Comment by koshersalaami on April 21, 2017 at 11:12am


Habit. And there are certain kinds of accusations I tend not to,leave unanswered. 

Regarding misogynistic:

That was a reflexive accusation, not an actual one. It was part of a laundry list that was so automatic she hadn't realized she'd said it.  I brought it up as an (the) example of her admitting a mistake, not because I'm worried about it as an accusation per se. If she were serious about it, she'd have remembered making it. 

By the way, I've learned things from Amy. She turned me on to the DNC class action suit. I hadn't been aware of the research into trans brains and she got me a great comprehensive link. And she taught me why the assault rifle ban makes no sense and we should really be worried about magazine size. The last two things are now integrated into my positions on the subjects. 

Comment by alsoknownas on April 21, 2017 at 11:48am

There was a woman who stepped out in front of a train nearby last evening while multi-tasking, i.e. walking and texting. The train made quite a mess of her. It was being touted as a learning experience on the morning news for those who might be inclined to follow. I switched channels knowing I certainly won't be doing that myself.

I'm a quick study.

Comment by Token on April 21, 2017 at 2:51pm


I don't come here to find people who agree with me on methods, I come here to discuss methods with people who have more or less the same goals, If we could ever bust through all the bullshit of what baby eating batshit crazy morons the other side is, we might be able to communicate WHY we believe that mutual goals are obtainable in a mutually agreeable manner, and not EVER be faced with a choice of voting for the least repugnant moron running for a given office.

For example, Ron and I both agree that Black kids get the shaft in the education department. I'm concerned about them. I'm also concerned about kids that AREN'T black getting the shaft. Ways of addressing those concerns are many and various, but NONE of them start with "You're an asshole, and you WANT it this way" ( cause YOUR KIND made it this way)

We can either sit around and call names and place blame for whose ancetors or race or kind or political party did what to whom, or we can discuss how to fix the problem. In my experience you can't do both.


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