One Sentence Wednesday: On Proportional Police Response

If a guy drives twelve MPH over the limit, is pulled over, and the arresting officer shoots him for it, the appropriate response is NEVER

"The guy shouldn't have been speeding."

Views: 1300

Comment by alsoknownas on October 28, 2015 at 6:53am

Kenny1948 says he is no longer commenting on his posting where you said this first.

My response to you there was:

Wouldn't the analogy have a greater air of familiarity if it ended as "He shouldn't have made a lane change without signaling?"

Comment by JMac1949 Today on October 28, 2015 at 7:40am

My head hurts:

Comment by koshersalaami on October 28, 2015 at 8:45am

If this concept were obvious in the threads I've been in for the last day or so I wouldn't have bothered posting this. 

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on October 28, 2015 at 8:57am

This was a response to FM on another post, but it fits here too well to not repeat it:

Police expect to be treated with a certain deference...

Why?  Because they are bigger and meaner than me or some young black chick with an attitude?    Because they DEMAND it "or else"?  Because they are SOOOO fucking smart?  Because they have guns, nightsticks and pepper spray and sure as hell ain't afraid to use them?  Because not kowtowing to them has dire "consequences"?

The same could just as easily be said about the KKK, the Mafia, ISIL and the IDF.

Just be cause brutal bullies are hired by like minded bullies and given a badge doesn't give them  permission to assault people.  That right is given by sheeple who refuse to stand up for what is right and just.

NOT standing up to them is what causes the break down of civil order, not the other way around.

Comment by koshersalaami on October 28, 2015 at 8:57am

Sure it is. The question on the table in the South Carolina case is whether the magnitude of the cop's reaction was appropriate, not whether the girl deserved to be disciplined. A whole lot of discussion revolved around the fact that the girl misbehaved. Of course she did. Everyone agrees to that. Making that point was ultimately a waste of time because it was unnecessary. 

This issue has also come up in other recent police cases, like the Staten Island case. Yes, brushing a cop's hands off is not a good idea, even if accompanied by "Please don't touch me." But getting killed for doing that is not appropriate. 

I can't tell you how many times the answer to disproportionate punitive action has been answered by "but the suspect wasn't innocent." That's not the issue. 

Comment by koshersalaami on October 28, 2015 at 9:04am

My response was to Joisey, not Amy. Our comments posted at almost the same time. 

Amy's point is a good one: The stupidity of resistance should not be confused with the justifiability of consequences. This is analogous to the woman wearing a short tight dress showing a lot of cleavage walking alone in a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night. No matter how much anyone thinks she's "asking for it," if she gets raped, the rapist is guilty of rape, period, end of sentence, no extenuating circumstances. We may think she's an idiot but that does not make the rapist innocent. 

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on October 28, 2015 at 9:57am

yep, kosh

Comment by koshersalaami on October 28, 2015 at 11:17am

JSR,
Where have I marveled about agreeing with Amy on this thread? I mentioned her twice: once to say that my comment immediately following hers was a response to you and not her, and the other saying that her point was a good one. So the marveling is.............................

What the South Carolina schoolroom incident has to do with my hypothetical "shoot-the-speeder" scenario is that the issue in that schoolroom has to do with disproportionate response, which is exactly what this post is about. I've been watching this straw man argument all over the place that she wasn't innocent. If anyone claimed that she was innocent, I suppose anyone making this argument would have a point, but I haven't seen that case made once here.


Comment by Myriad on October 28, 2015 at 11:24am

This article blames ye olde Zero Tolerance for the crazy things happening now.

Comment by koshersalaami on October 28, 2015 at 11:43am

Yes, on another thread I invoked that, though threads would make a great deal more sense if you reacted to something on the thread where you actually saw it. The reason I express repeated surprise (and she expresses equivalent surprise) is that on some issues we differ bitterly. And, by the way, are you under the impression that I never have virulent disagreements with intelligent people?

And again, my hypothetical is absolutely related and relevant. It is an analogy about the foolishness of ignoring the disproportionate aspect of any given police response. That's as far as the analogy goes. And while you're making excuses for the officer in this case, I'm curious what your opinion is of the facts that his chief said that the video made him sick to his stomach, that the officer was found not to have followed police procedure, and that the officer was fired? 

So you'd like to argue about how what the officer did wasn't excessive to his own department? 

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