One sentence Sunday, really a question, concerning the issue of third party politics

What is the most efficient path to liberal/progressive power?

Views: 531

Comment by Ron Powell on November 19, 2017 at 7:12am

Coopt and usurp the Democratic Party.

Comment by cheshyre on November 19, 2017 at 7:15am

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I thought this was settled a long time ago...

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on November 19, 2017 at 7:17am

I'll just C&P my last comment (to Ron) from my post:

The "winner take all"  approach to our politics is self perpetuating and the inertia is too great to overcome without a fundamental structural reformation of the electoral process which simply ain't gonna happen no time soon...

Why?

As I have "conclusively  demonstrated" numerous times it takes less then a 10 vote swing (to any party other than the duopoly) to make the required "fundamental structural reformation".  

For example lets look at the senatorial race in Alabama.  The Democratic candidate is STILL running behind everyone knows is a rapist and child molester.  That is some seriously WTF??? shit for that to happen.  However, it would have been a PERFECT opportunity for the Libertarians to get a "I'm not a Republican pedophile nor damn liberal Yankee" candidate elected to "drain the sewer" (Moore isn't even welcome in the swamp).  Why didn't they run someone?  I'd think Good Ol' Boy Gary Johnson and his faschist-lite rhetoric would be a perfect fit. (and I am using this solely as an example, I do NOT like Libertarians). 

P.S.  You never answered my question:  

BTW, you never answered my question:  "Let me ask you this...  what would it take to make you walk away from the Democrats?"

 

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on November 19, 2017 at 7:20am

Coopt and usurp the Democratic Party.

This C&P thing is getting funny, so I'll just C&P my response to KS:

"Uhhh...  you DO realize that if you are trying to build something strong and tall it is better if you don't start from the bottom of a big ass hole, right?  You also don't ever build something worthwhile on a rotten foundation.

In other words, you are going on with your normal "Let's get the Centralists on board" lesser evilism.  That is the thinking that got us here in the first damn place!  Just who the hell do you think Perez, Wasserman-Schultz and the Clintons represent???"

Comment by Ron Powell on November 19, 2017 at 7:33am

Since we're on a C&P kick here's my contribution:

"...I do NOT like Libertarians."

Amy, this is your problem in a single sentence. Politics is not and cannot be about what you "like".

Politics is about what works.

In a winner take all democracy, politics is about what works to win elections before you can begin to consider what works to run the government for the benefit of the greatest possible number of citizens.

My answer to your scenario and premise is , and has been, get out from behind the avatars, screen name,  and keyboard and RUN FOR SOMETHING!!!

Comment by Ron Powell on November 19, 2017 at 7:40am

Here's a chicken and egg question:

Can fundamental structural change of the American electoral process occur before there are a sufficient number of legislators in office to make such chnge, or nust there be a sufficient number of legislators in office ready and willing to vote in favor of the changes prior to the changes being made?

Comment by Rodney Roe on November 19, 2017 at 7:49am

The collapse and dissolution of the Democratic Party.

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on November 19, 2017 at 8:14am

"...I do NOT like Libertarians."

Amy, this is your problem in a single sentence. Politics is not and cannot be about what you "like".

Obtuse much, Ron?   You know as well as I do what I mean by "like".  I am (and always have made it clear) referring to their policies.  I don't "like" self-serving, elitist and/or fascist policies or the people who want to inflict them.

Comment by alsoknownas on November 19, 2017 at 8:17am

I am flummoxed.

There isn't any party I want to be a member of yet that would mean greatly limiting my ability to be a participant in primary elections.

I think both parties are consuming themselves.

Comment by koshersalaami on November 19, 2017 at 8:18am

Amy's answer doesn't work for Presidential politics but it probably does for legislative politics. It also doesn't work for Gubernatorial politics for the same reason it doesn’t work for Presidential politics but in miniature. 

The structural weakness with the Third Party approach that concerns me is the pulling of voting influence from the primaries. If liberals don’t vote in the Democratic primaries, Democratic candidates for executive posts will all be moderates. 

The rotten foundation of the Democratic Party is a description of its leadership, not its membership. If the leadership can be measured numerically in the thousands and the membership is probably in the high seven figures, which is more obvious to replace? 

I'll make an observation I made on Amy's post: Looking at OurSalon bloggers as a population sample, at least of liberals, being as I think we only have one active blogger who is a loyal Republican, I can't name one person who prefers corporatism to more egalitarian economics than we now have. Not one. What do you think that indicates about the Democratic Party membership? 

Why define Foundation by leadership? The foundation is actually the healthier part of the organization.

if we go third party, we have to build completely from scratch or awfully damned close. We'll be fighting the Democrats for progressive voters. Why make them move? Changing the leadership means we simply inherit them. 

Gabbard, Warren, and Ellison are Democrats. 

That being said, I think Amy's strategem for legislative positions works, particularly in districts small enough to give the third party candidate a realistic shot given resources. Third party legislators are more likely to stay progressive because the pressures on them don't include party loyalty to move their votes on centrist positions, and they don't divide progressive votes on legislative floors. 

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