On the Destruction of Monuments to White Supremacists

"I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

                                         Abaham Lincoln                                                                                                                                                           Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas


Views: 100

Comment by Terry McKenna on August 16, 2017 at 4:56am

Can we at least recognize 2 things.  The first is that Lincoln was a politician who did not want to be tarred with the label of N.. Lover.  So like all politicians, he did construct dodges and lies to keep his chances open.  The second is that over a short time, Lincoln became a supporter of complete abolition of slavery.  He grew up in the frontier and blacks were rare.  But as he came into contact with blacks, they saw him as an earnest supporter.  Thus Fredrick Douglas was an admirer. 

Don't decontextualize history. 

Comment by Token on August 16, 2017 at 12:51pm


Ordinarily I don't even bother to answer Terry, since, as we all know, his expertise in all things is inarguable (Literally, given his disdain to discuss) , but come on!

You should recognise that the LAST thing that applies to "quotes" used by the media to impugn someone's reputation is "Context"!!!!!

Comment by Terry McKenna on August 16, 2017 at 1:17pm

Sorry Token, i don't claim expertise in many things.  But i do think argument is futile.  if it wasn't the newspapers would have empty comment sections.  

But re media, sorry how is that relevant here.  You used a Lincoln quote to make a point.  and I am telling you you are taking it out of context.  again - where does media enter in?

Comment by Ron Powell on August 16, 2017 at 2:55pm

It can , indeed , be argued that Lincoln was a racist. He was at least as much a racist as the  majority of white folks at that time.

Yes, he abolished slavery.

But the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves in all places.

The 13th Amendment did that.

Lincoln's executive order freed the slaves only in those states and counties that were in open re ellion against the Inion.

Lincoln was a political and war tactician . He was not an abolitionist.

He was nott an egalitarian.

Frederick Douglass exerted no real influence or leverage that  toward whiich Lincoln wasn't already predisposed....

Douglass' strength was that he had influence and leverage with black people who would do as he urged and join the Union Army upon being granted the freemdom and oportunity  to choose to do so.

The Civil War was not the war to free the slaves. It was the war that made it possible for slaves to be made free due to political and military expedoency...

Lincoln often said that if held end the war without ending slavery he would have done so...

Comment by koshersalaami on August 16, 2017 at 3:18pm


For the time being, there is a distinction, which is:

In the case of Confederates with monuments to them, the only two things they are famous for is killing people to preserve slavery and treason toward a country in which they had fair representation. Past that, our history is full of bigots of various stripes who did some good things for which they are remembered, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, and even Lincoln being cases in point. And that's just racism. Sexism was probably even more pervasive than that. 

Stated differently, Lincoln is venerated despite his attitudes toward equality, while Confederate so-called heroes are venerated because of their attitudes toward equality. 

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on August 16, 2017 at 3:29pm

No automatic alt text available.

Comment by Token on August 17, 2017 at 1:33am


This is the Internet , I AM the Media.

Comment by Token on August 17, 2017 at 1:40am


I agree with you almost exactly, and the fact that Lincoln was a man pf his times and thereby racist by our standards cannot figure in our evaluations of his impact on history in the same way that it would by today's standards.

In case anyone hadn't figured it out (i'm looking at you ,terry) The sarcasm button was ON when I wrote about ignoring context. Context to History is the only thing which makes quotations either relevant or comprehensible.

Comment by Token on August 17, 2017 at 1:47am


It's digging up a dead horse in order to attract hyenas. No one who walkked through those parks or monuments even knew or cared what they were about or who they "honored" until it became a convenient way of stirring up the crazies for political purposes. This is not just pulling of a scab to draw blood, it is sticking a knife into a long scarred over wound that had healed.

This is the same sort of historic revisionism hat leads to Moaist "reeducation" camps. Only question is, who gets to re educate whom.

The only reason for raising this issue now is to incite violence.

Comment by Token on August 17, 2017 at 1:52am


Geez Girl, I thought you were a patriotic Italian! Anyway, I drive by the bend in the little Miami river where Tecumseh was born, every time I drive to churcu... it is within 5 miles of my home. I've always been a big admirerer of Tecumseh. Any efforts you care to make to get the capital of Ohio renamed ( as you may have guessed, I favor "Tecumseh) will be greatly appreciated.


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