A friend of mine was speaking to me on the phone today about the election results. He was angry about the results in Arizona, where the Democratic candidate for Senate lost to the Republican by a smaller margin than the Green vote. He viewed the Greens as spoilers.

There was a time I would have agreed. I don’t any more. As I have been told many times on this site, the Greens don’t owe us their votes. 

I’ve made a mistake about the Greens. I’ve thought of them as liberal allies. They aren’t. They happen to share some positions with us and I suppose if they got elected to legislative office they’d vote with Democrats a lot but that doesn’t make them allies. 

We’re never going to make them allies. This actually has very little to do with ideology. What it’s really about is a difference in approach. When we talk to Greens, we talk about strategems for getting closer to what we want. That’s Greek to them. They care about What but they basically ignore How. As long as that’s true, there is no way to reach common ground because if all you care about is What, any differences in What for any reason look like selling out, no matter what accepting those differences accomplishes for anyone. It makes no sense to us why they wouldn’t care about maximizing what good we can actually accomplish, but they don’t. 

We have this argument a lot but it doesn’t make any sense. Here it takes the form of an argument about Lesser Evilism. We think that accepting a Lesser Evil makes sense if it’s the only way to avoid a Greater Evil, they think that Evil is Evil and you don’t touch it regardless of the consequences because they’re not about consequences, they’re about positions. 

The long and the short of it is that if we need more turnout, don’t look there. It’s a waste of effort. They aren’t spoilers at all, they’re just a population that looks enough like us that we’re fooled. 

Don’t bother. It’s the wrong place to look.

Views: 115

Comment by Tom Cordle on November 7, 2018 at 7:55pm

As you may recall, I coined a term to describe Greens – as well as Libertarians. Both types are practitioners of what i call Pyrrhicism. They are guilty of violating the common sense wisdom often expressed by my dear mother: They cut off their nose to spite their face.

Greens are merely the other side of the coin that practices winning at all costs; Greens are interested in maintaining their principles at all costs. Both of those approaches are evil – the former because it has no principles, and the latter because it has no practicality. Neither of these types understands, or at least accepts, that politics is the art of compromise.

Comment by Ron Powell on November 7, 2018 at 8:02pm

The political bifurcation that took place before, during, and after the Revolutionary War has continued to be the paradigm for politics and the political process in this country...

The fact that the Constitution provides for a bicameral Congress is clear, convincing, and incontrovertible evidence of that salient fact...

Everything this country is about politically militates against the viability of a strong and perennially competitive third party...

The Greens will have a significant posture when and if this country is fractured and balkanized in such a way as to virtually require several parties to govern as a coalition...

However, monumental changes in the Constitution and population distribution would have to occur well before that happens.

Comment by koshersalaami on November 7, 2018 at 8:17pm

Great analysis. Pyrricism is a great name for it. I’ve had more arguments on this site about exactly that than I want to remember. I’ve devoted multiple posts to it. The entire exercise was a waste of time and I did it because I didn’t understand at the time that it was a waste. I simply couldn’t relate to the idea that results shouldn’t figure into the equation. This is me accepting the reality that people really think like that. 

Comment by Maui Surfer on November 7, 2018 at 8:49pm

What grows Greens? Dirt. They are idealistic credulous imbecilic fools, many of whom live communally so they can convince each other their ridicules views of the future are credible. A bunch of losers, many of whom are in dire need of bathing. No shit. Hawaii is the ONLY state where they have a presence. The environment is so important to people here that occasionally a Green gets elected. They never accomplish a fucking thing though, just waste space where a Dem might have stopped an atrocious development or protected ranch lands forever. Hippies were always losers, watch Rainbow Bridge, I've told you the story behind it before Kosh, about hippies on Maui among other things, and see how stupid and naive these fools are. Nice job stupid Arizona Greens, you are only there because engineers changed your precious Earth to water Vegas and LA. Damn Fools.

Comment by Maui Surfer on November 7, 2018 at 8:51pm

However, the only thing worse than a Green is a Libertarian. Now there is a group of idiots if anyone ever gathered one.

You are right about one thing Kosh, they are not our friends and never will be. I keep telling you, reaching out to Trump Voters is a mistake ... only a HATER would vote for someone who started his campaign calling Mexicans rapists. They are Confederates and always have been, but the map is wrong, the Caribbean is no longer their territory, The scumbag Cavaliers left centuries ago.

Comment by marshall bjohnson on November 8, 2018 at 7:08am

conquer and divide. ive been voting green since 1992. but when there is no green candidate i go to working families party, no one there i go to and i hold my nose the fucking whores who call themselves democrats....hillary clinton is not capable of being honest. neither is joe biden. obama has NEVER admitted he was wrong in droning thousands of people in Yemen. al gore lives in a mansion. cuomo is a corporate shill. and tulsi gabbard would kill indiscriminately if given the power...only bernie saunders and he needs to have kamala harris as his vp... 

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on November 8, 2018 at 7:15am

1. Trump base voters were never ... not for one damned minute ... the sadly neglected-by-elites downtrodden folk-heroes so many sappy, guilt-ridden-when-anyone-sneezes liberals...here and elsewhere... made them out to be after November 2016.

They were always fundamentally racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic, so easily manipulated, narrow proudly under-read people in need of and now enthrall to authoritarian leadership. Period.

2. Greens were never, not for one moment, going to look at voting coalitions or strategy that could in any way be seen as originating with any group but themselves, w any ideology save their own.

3. Libertarians specialise in alienating via deadly boredom the world-entire.

Comment by marshall bjohnson on November 8, 2018 at 7:20am

@maui surfer...easy big guy. arizona is a fairly retrograde place so any greens there are going to be racists or racist apologists from the git-go. only ny and ca. has greens not afraid to live with poc...i caint speak to yer state cause its too damn expensive to consider...

Comment by alsoknownas on November 8, 2018 at 7:39am

The entirely predictable retort post is up now, only serving to show the same insulated self aggrandizement and myopia you have now declared to be in your sights.

I'm glad you wrote this in that continuing to argue the matter at this site is futile.

@ JW...100% on track.

Comment by marshall bjohnson on November 8, 2018 at 8:04am

so easy to criticize so easy to fall into judgment so easy to diagnose so easy to stand apart

where is spiritual love...it can only exist if there is truly spiritual freedom.

only in the greens platform...are the words "secular democracy"

only in the greens platform do you have more than tolerance for people who worship differently

the greens are the only sustainable party...



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