This post is Inspired by greenheron who, in a recent comment, wrote:

"White people are blind to black experience, the same way men are blind to women’s experience, but save that one for another time. White people need to stop talking and listen, damp down their defenses and just listen."

Views: 438

Comment by Ben Sen on April 19, 2017 at 9:26am

I'm much older than Tim Wise and have been practicing the discipline of "listening" with people of color since I saw the city I came from destroyed by racism in 1967.  If you want to see the inevitable result of racism go visit the city of Detroit.  You don't have to say anything, just look.

Comment by JMac1949 Today on April 19, 2017 at 9:49am

R&L, Listening here.

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 19, 2017 at 11:41am

Great job of "not listening", Terry.  You could be the poster boy for EXACTLY what Tim Wise was talking about. (...and you can stick your "No one truly and completely unde[r]stands anyone else." copout up your ass because you didn't even TRY!)

Face it, dude (...and yeah, I know you never will) your paternalistic, condescending and "entitled" spew got caught, called and bad beat. 

Sadly, apparently WE (I am guilty as hell of this, so I'm including myself too) are more interested in maintaining/proving OUR sense of tokenistic equality instead of treating people of any given race, ethnicity, orientation or religion as TRUE equals.

Bottom line for ALL OF US is that WE need to shut the fuck up and listen MORE.  Deal with it... or not.  

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 19, 2017 at 11:42am

BTW, Ron...  I have never head Tim Wise before.  Maybe because he is white he got it across better to me, but he did.  (how sad is that, huh?)

Comment by Ron Powell on April 19, 2017 at 1:33pm

Amy,  That's precisely why I  try to post material of  this nsture. I  know that it is difficult for many here to listen to what I have to say. However Tim Wise is featured in a slew of videos that can br found on YouTube.

Check him out. I believe you'll find him to be worth your rffort.

Thanks for your support....

Comment by Ron Powell on April 19, 2017 at 1:41pm

@JMac; I know you are listening, and I appreciate the fsct that you do...

Thsnks....

Comment by Ron Powell on April 19, 2017 at 4:28pm

@Ben Sen; Detroit may not ever fully recover.... I agree, all you have to do is look.

Comment by koshersalaami on April 19, 2017 at 5:14pm

I've read a lot of Tim Wise. He is effective because he's really good at presenting Black concerns to White audiences. In order to do that, you have to have a pretty good idea how both populations think. I've seen some others do it, though doing it as well as Wise is rare. Nathan McCall comes to mind as someone else really good at this.

However, this post is about something else entirely. It was triggered by a White guy, Terry McKenna, addressing a White audience on behalf of a group of minority children local to him.  Terry's concern isn't cultural but financial:  the Governor wants to reduce funding to this community - Paterson, NJ - and Terry is arguing against this on the grounds that it will affect minority children adversely. With all due respect, Terry doesn't need a Black expert to vet this stance. I sincerely doubt Mr. Wise would claim he did. 

Ron objected to the way Terry couched his pitch to conservative and largely bigoted Whites in his area. However, in terms of understanding the audience in question, this is far more Terry's area of expertise than Ron's. After all, Terry is a formerly conservative White guy from that area. 

Ron's objection was that Terry said that these kids deserved support. Ron thought he should instead say that these kids were entitled to support.

Do you have any idea what conservative White guys think of "entitlements?" From a sales standpoint - and this is a sales function, like it or not - Ron is in essence advising Terry to step on a verbal land mine. 

This advice does not serve the Paterson kids. If anything, it sabotages Terry's pitch. 

Why should Terry be made to feel guilty about not following Ron's advice about talking to a population Terry damned near comes from? 

Terry's issue is not about Black experience. It's about pitching for continued funding from conservative White guys. White experience is more valuable here. 

Wise's advice isn't relevant to this case. 

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 19, 2017 at 5:18pm

^^ YAY!!!!  Another paternalistic, condescending, "entitled" "No one truly and completely unde[r]stands anyone else."-er, white guy, NON-LISTENER heard from ^^

Comment by Ron Powell on April 20, 2017 at 4:06am

@Kosh; I quoted the comment that inspired this post. It came from greenheron, not TM.

This is the statement made by TM that gave rise to the conversation/debate in which the comment made by greenheron occurs:

"For me, the question is not about whites, but about how much others deserve the same chance as I was given when I was small."


My reply to this statement concluded with this question:

"Do these kids DESERVE the chance to succeed or are they ENTITLED to the chance to succeed on an equal basis and footing with their white counterparts?"

The reaction to the question was not an attempt to respond to the question, but rather an excoriation of me for having the brazen effrontery and unmitigated gall to pose such an interrogatory. How dare I be so gauche?

At that point THE COMMENT STREAM took a turn in a direction that is clearly  uncomfortable for TM because it became a debate about the kids he was ostensibly advocating on behalf of, NOT THE AUDIENCE you say he is pitching to, none of whom reside on this platform.
 
You say: "Terry's concern isn't cultural but financial:  the Governor wants to reduce funding to this community - Paterson, NJ - and Terry is arguing against this on the grounds that it will affect minority children adversely...
...Ron objected to the way Terry couched his pitch to conservative and largely bigoted Whites in his area."

Koshersalaami, please show me exactly where in TM's post or comments is any of this made apparent or clear.

If you ask me, what he did was take some photos of the kids he is working with  and posted them here in some kind of show and tell montage and rather than simply say:

"Here's some pictures of the kids I do volunteer work with..."

He decided to place captions in the post to enhance the impact and effect of the display...That's where the 'trouble' began...

His captions in "conservativese" was a botched attempt at being prideful of the work he's doing because his subliminal and subconscious "white privilege" and posture came out without his being conscious or aware that it had.

My comment suggested that a rhetorical or linguistic adjustment would be appropriate in order to change or alter the tone of his statement to wit:

Change from;

"For me, the question is not about whites, but about how much others deserve the same chance as I was given when I was small."

to;

"For me, the question is not about whites, but about how much others have the right to the same chance as I was given when I was small."

Had he acquiesced and acknowledged that that would have been a more apt, effective , and unoffensive way to make his point HERE ON THIS PLATFORM, we wouldn't be discussing whether Tim Wise is relevant or not.

You insist on putting words in TM's mouth in an effort to support, defend, justify, rationalize, and excuse the slip in thinking that his remark, as is, shouldn't be read as offensive by me or anyone else of color.

In so doing you, and especially you, have made this comment by Tim Wise as relevant as it is correct.

Instead of trying to put me back in my place for speaking up, you should have trusted what I'm saying, amplify it, and convey my remark, in 'progressivese' to the audience you have a much better chance to reach than I, namely Terry McKenna.

I suspect that Tim Wise would not only agree with me, he would have done exactly that.

Had you started down that road with this discussion, we all would have been much the better for it.

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