... to have your own blog page? And be a coward who needs to hide behind censorship, a mirror of some of the worst things that you use the forum to present about?

Views: 198

Comment by Maui Surfer on September 23, 2018 at 8:36pm

Say anything you fucking want. It won't be deleted. Free Speech is what we fought for before, and after, ending the war. The self proclaimed experts, with no on the ground experience and who actually benefited personally from the blood we left on the streets, turn out to be the same COWARDS who can't even handle stick and stones will break my bones (what we did and they couldn't in a million years) but names will never hurt me, but, oh, they do, they hurt so much ... owwwwwww, I better delete those painful things before I end up on Oxycontin.

Comment by moki ikom on September 24, 2018 at 12:46am


Comment by koshersalaami on September 24, 2018 at 6:10am

Does the question have to do with deleting comments? I don’t know what example you’re referring to because I haven’t followed the site closely lately (I drove 600 miles Friday and another 600 yesterday on under four hours sleep), but I’ve certainly done it. The circumstances have to be specific though and it’s not about views. 

I’ll do it to keep someone off my site altogether. Of course, if I do that, I won’t comment on their site either. 

I’ll do it if someone keeps engaging in a behavior I warn them about. For example, I won’t allow someone to endorse antisemitic publications on my site, which a departed blogger would do on occasion. 

Usually I leave comments up if for no other reason than I like to keep evidence around. 

Comment by Maui Surfer on September 24, 2018 at 8:08am

Yes moki.

Kosh- I know you are selling, though not sure if that was what all the driving is for but please be careful, you need enough rest, a lot of us Alphas get behind the wheel and just go go go, I get it, what are you going to do, check into a motel and stare at the cieling?

It is like some part of you is Neal Cassady in On The Road, and like him we can't turn it off. That's just my experience with long drives around the globe, but, I think there is something to it. Your circumstances may have no connection.

But, we disagree about deleting comments and blogs being private property, that's OK. To me, if you can't take what others say, right, wrong, or indifferent, than you are leaving out an integral part of the interaction and so censoring it which means limiting it to less than it was, or actually could, be. I'm an old school Internet user who believes in letting fools hang themselves, and that their words are a laugh and can't hurt. I realize that things have changed just a bit in almost 30 years, and this is not anywhere near a Universal POV. Cheers and be safe.

Comment by Maui Surfer on September 24, 2018 at 8:14am

They rolled and rolled like the sea. Folks yelled for him to 'Go!' Dean was sweating; the sweat poured down his collar. 'There he is! That's him! Old God! Old God Shearing! Yes! Yes! Yes!' And Shearing was conscious of the madman behind him, he could hear every one of Dean's gasps and imprecations, he could sense it though he couldn't see. 'That's right!' Dean said. 'Yes!' Shearing smiled; he rocked. Shearing rose from the piano, dripping with sweat; these were his great 1949 days before he became cool and commercial. When he was gone Dean pointed to the empty piano seat. 'God's empty chair,' he said."

Comment by koshersalaami on September 24, 2018 at 8:43am

I’m not going to support deleting comments to avoid an argument. 

I will ask you a question, though, even though this question may not make a lot of sense to you:

What are you trying to accomplish when you leave the comment?

On a site like this we write (talk) for three reasons: Persuasion, self-expression, and teaching. Which one matters to you how much under what circumstances? Maybe it’s unusual to ask yourself what you want your writing to accomplish but it’s not a bad question. I’m a compulsive teacher so some of my writing will reflect that, so maybe it overlaps with self-expression. 

What do you want to accomplish by ranting on Amy’s blog? I didn’t read your comment but I kind of doubt she deleted a calm, considered comment, not from the intensity of her answer. I am not saying this to justify her deletion; that’s not my point at all, though it is her blog and her prerogative. (And no, I am not defending Amy personally; at this point I don’t care enough about her feelings to defend her - except over things about which I would defend anyone, regardless of my feelings about them. I’m talking about the dynamics of a situation. We could be having a similar conversation about someone else.) This isn’t about her deletion. What was your goal?

To express outrage? OK, that’s self-expression. Just remember that that may be all it is. 

To tell the world how inappropriately you think Amy is acting? This particular world already knows both how she acts and what you think of it. So, from a teaching standpoint, don’t expect to accomplish much if anything. Ditto from a persuasion standpoint. 

That it’s cowardly? Why pick this example? There are years’ worth. Present three arguments, watch her pick the one she thinks she can answer and avoid the others as much as possible. Would you do that? Think about why not. You know how much she is willing to attack but ask yourself how much she is willing to defend. Defense is harder and defense is a lot more dangerous because it involves accountability. I never hesitate to play defense specifically because I am not a coward. Though I refuse to be accountable for anyone else’s views - and, by the way, a tactic she uses constantly is to group people to try to make them accountable for the views of others, guilt by association - I am accountable for the consequences of my own views. (If she answers this, she will try to come up with examples where she thinks I avoid accountability but she will under no circumstances address her own lack of accountability over anything - offense rather than defense as usual - just watch.) Watch how much accountability she is willing to accept for the consequences of her own views. The closest she comes to that is fantasizing about those consequences - if everyone voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t have a Trump problem. You get the idea. Watch how much accountability she is willing to accept over the nature of her sources. She wrote a classic antisemitic “the Jews control the banks” post about how the Rothschilds control every major bank in the world including the national banks of China, Russian and Iran, a howler so bad that Snopes addressed it, but she never reveals her source for classic antisemitism like that nor does she ever show any doubt for a source that gives her crap like that in spite of the fact that it is factually crap. How would you treat a source that embarrassed you in public? By keeping it out of sight? The last thing she wants is accountability for relying on sources like that. Would you run from accountability? Why not? See the question at the beginning of this paragraph. 

Assuming she reads this, and she is almost guaranteed to, she will make a point of accusing me of attacking her, which of course I am. As long as she attacks me by the use of her name for me, which means she attacks my credibility every time she uses my name, which she does often, I feel absolutely no guilt about returning fire. If I score more direct hits than she does, that’s not my problem. I understand that she does the same to you. I’ve been KB for a long time. She has finally gotten around to abbreviating her nickname for you, doubly effective because the abbreviation has another common and very uncomplimentary meaning: MF. 

I could say all this in a PM because this is primarily for your eyes but I’m not going to bother because I don’t care who else reads this. All I care is that you do. 

Back to my question. What do you want to accomplish by ranting on Amy’s blog? I’m not asking why you wrote this post, that I get. 

Self-expression is cool, just as long as you don’t harbor any illusions about accomplishing anything else with your comments on her blog. 

But is self-expression enough of a reason to bother? 

Remember that people here survive on attention. 

Comment by alsoknownas on September 24, 2018 at 11:19am

Those are good points Koshersalaami.

I did not hide my disdain for the former blogger who would post links from an anti-Semitic publication. A post about a family member or something important to me would get 10-15 comments full of doggerel and accusations with threats to turn me in to all the alphabet monikered federal agencies. No apology offered by me for growing tired of it.

I watched an example of sexism and racism get ignored this weekend and said so. Deleted.

If I were stuck in a town with under 2000 people, I'd still get out to enjoy it and not spend my life filling my head with venom and misdirection.

BTW: Although it is considerably offensive I am not a White Supremacist as has been declared in a cavalier fashion. Requests for an apology are met with sneers and invective.

Grandma taught me always to "consider the source". I let myself down when I ignore that advice.

Comment by koshersalaami on September 24, 2018 at 12:40pm

We can discuss this further and then we’ll be blamed as a group. Collectives are easier to blame. You know, a pack.  

Though, truth be told, in your case I have no idea why you ever comment on her blog. I don’t, and my opinion is obviously no secret. Not necessary to comment there to make that point. 

Comment by koshersalaami on September 24, 2018 at 1:02pm

I liked Shearing. I can’t find a version of a tune of his called Station Break on line which is a pity, it was good. 

I was driving to and from an outdoor benefit concert for the local interdenominational food bank in Greensboro founded seven years ago by my old bandleader. I play it with the band every year. I showed up Friday night, went to Torah study Saturday morning, played piano for a small service, picked up some canned food to donate at the gate and a six pack so I didn’t have to bum any, went to a local bagel place for lox and cream cheese and onions on a toasted bialy (the bagels are better there than here in upstate NY, as is the Temple), dropped by the cemetery to leave a rock on the kid’s gravestone, headed over to the site where the playing started about 2:00. My band was on from about 7:30 until maybe 9:15, then I stayed up and played a few songs with the next band, fronted by a friend and they don’t have a keyboard player. 11:00 the main stage shuts, local noise ordinance, we go to a side stage for a few acoustic sets, which means mainly acoustic instruments aside from keys (no acoustic piano) and bass (standup isn’t played by most of these guys). I came down from NY and an absolutely killer harmonica player in the band way before my time flies up from Florida. Played a set, then a solo acoustic act went on, then the band I sat in with went on and I did some more playing with them, then it wrapped. Time first to pack up my equipment, then for sitting around jamming without amplification or electric instruments at all. I played a little mandolin, not well because I wasn’t warmed up on it and I’m nothing on it like on keys, switched to melodica - where it was interesting contrasting what melodica and harmonica do in real time as we traded off while playing with acoustic guitar, sometimes another mandolin player, a guy on a sort of big acoustic bass guitar, and box drum. Played, hung out and talked to friends - I lived there 2006 - 2016 and would love to move back - and eventually left everyone else to their campsites and drove the very few minutes to a hotel room (I don’t own a tent), went to sleep about 5:30 AM, woke a little after nine, ate, tried to get back to sleep and failed, hit the road about 12:30, arrived home about 11 hours later. 

I almost stopped at my mother’s for dinner but she had a cold and advised me not to come. Saved me about 40 miles - she’s 20 miles off the route. 

Lunch at Wendy’s, they’ve got some really good salads, dinner were tacos at a Sheetz.

I did it in one shot because my wife doesn’t like me gone. She just feels better with me home. Married for 36 years. 

On the road. 

And the playing was worth it. 

Comment by alsoknownas on September 24, 2018 at 1:08pm

It's simple. I get annoyed and forget to use common sense. It's not my best trait.

"A group". That's funny.

MS disagreed with some of your position. You pointed out a flaw in some of mine, etc. Nobody has called anybody any names, or any of the myriad predictable responses elsewhere.

I would be more inclined to call it an adult conversation versus "a group" but I think the admonition to be reserved to avoid more headaches is apropos.


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