If God Exists, Worship Is Unnecessary. If There Is No God, Worship Is Pointless.

In deference to my friend, associate, and ally, I have changed the title of the post which may have been unintentionally insensitive or callous.

Inasmuch as my focus was/is the specific behavior associated with the belief in the existence of god, I have altered the title of the post to more accurately reflect that focus.

The discussion continues...

Views: 721

Comment by Ron Powell on August 30, 2016 at 6:28am
@ABP; Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to read and comment.

Glad to know that I resonate with your sense of fairness.
Comment by greenheron on August 30, 2016 at 6:39am

Amy, me too, going to try to ask that question with awareness today myself.

Also, ditto the time suck. I'm supposed to start back to work this week and need to be typing other things–I am sure :)

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on August 30, 2016 at 6:54am
Organized religion is the weapon used by "worshippers" to suppress and abuse those they disagree with. Roman "worshippers" used it to kill and abuse Christians, Christians used it to kill and abuse Jews, homosexuals & TGs, Jews use it to kill and abuse Palestinians & Muslims, Muslims used it to kill and abuse "non believers", Buddhists used it to kill and abuse Non-Buddhists, etc. etc. etc.

The common like between all religions, and their "worshippers" are the words "kill" and "abuse". The small amount of good done by some of them comes nowhere close to offsetting the millions upon millions murdered and abused in the name of religious "worship".
Comment by Ron Powell on August 30, 2016 at 7:16am
@SBA; 4200 or more religions in the world. Potentially 4200 reasons for war?
Comment by Ron Powell on August 30, 2016 at 7:21am
Are there any religions that would permit themselves to be eradicated, rather than fight?
Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on August 30, 2016 at 7:27am
Yes, 4200 "Agree with me or die" religions in the world and all of their "worshippers" will fight because their religions tell them they have a right to dominate, destroy and murder in the name of their "never met, never seem, never heard" deity of choice.
Comment by Zanelle on August 30, 2016 at 9:25am

I have heard that Buddhism and Judaism are ways of life rather than religions.  Not sure what that means tho as most religions seem to tell you how to live.  

  Byron Katie is famous for The Work.   The question about "Is it true" is pivotal in her explanation of how to arrive at a peaceful solution to a problem.   There are lots of utube videos of her work and when I have used it I am amazed at how it helps.  I think there are just four questions you ask about anything...   Is it true?  Is it really true?  How would you feel if you didnt have to ask the question?  and   What is the opposite of what you are asking?

So simple and so powerful.  I hadnt realized she got it from a Buddhist question but she made it work in her therapy sessions by putting her own spin on it.

Isnt that what we all do...Take the basics of life and put our own unique print on it.  I love that diversity and it makes us all do some soul searching.   I think about these posts and love how I carry them with me during my day and mull things over.  

Comment by koshersalaami on August 30, 2016 at 10:18am
I wasn't really made uncomfortable by the atheists in their chat room. Their room was centered on atheism, so I got it. However, the room made me realize that atheism can have an evangelical component, which sounds like a contradiction in terms but really isn't.

Sure we can travel together on parallel roads. My sole request for you is that you don't knock my road. I absolutely do not knock yours, nor do I even suggest that you belong on mine. Mine works for me.

ABP, the above also addresses something you said concerning being true to spiritual dictates.

As I've grown older and had more experiences involving religion and the interfaces between religions and also simply more religious education, I've learned things about Judaism I never knew before, both in absolute terms and in comparative religious terms. I also married a non-Jew who converted many years later, a conversion I had nothing to do with. That experience among others has given me an unusual perspective. If I were not born Jewish, I might have very well converted to Judaism because it makes sense to me. That takes a longer conversation. Everything about this takes a longer conversation. As strange as it sounds, I like a God who is more worried about how people treat each other than about whether people believe in Him.

I've got some old posts about Judaism. Maybe I'll look one up for you if you're curious. I don't approach explaining it like anyone I know about.

I'd like to address Ron's point about perfection. I don't think of God in terms of perfection and omni-everything. In some ways, Torah reads like God is learning, like we are an experiment to see if God can create beings who will behave morally without being forced to, because force negates the choice that makes morality possible. That answers questions like How could the Holocaust happen? With the freedom of choice comes bad choices. Can it be done with just guideposts? Can it be done with persuasion? We've seen a lot of improvements over time, particularly in the rights of all sorts of categories, but I guess the jury is still out. I don't know if it will ever come back in.
Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on August 30, 2016 at 10:49am
"My sole request for you is that you don't knock my road."

You just did that in the paragraph above and below that sentence where you insult atheism because you perceive there is "evangelical" component to it and then go full evangelical for Judaism (while at the same time denying that you actually are).

BTW, I'm going to make a personal rule that whenever I see you evoking the holocaust (at least the Jewish PR version like you usually do), I'm going to evoke the Crusade against the Palestinians (the genocide, oppression and apartheid version = Palestinian Holocaust) that lays bare your hasbara about how the "worshippers" in Israel, and their Zionist supporter here, could care less about God's worry about how people treat each other and instead us Judaism as an offensive weapon.
Comment by Zanelle on August 30, 2016 at 10:55am

I think that is where the conflict appeared.   You seemed to think I was knocking your world and that others were too.   I don't wish my mind on anyone.  smile   I think in a totally unique way and it is a bumpy ride.  I don't want your mind and you can take that personally or just realize that I don't want anyone's mind but my own.   You got defensive.  I have nothing to defend.  That makes peace easier.  


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