If God Exists, Worship Is Unnecessary. If There Is No God, Worship Is Pointless.

In deference to my friend, associate, and ally, I have changed the title of the post which may have been unintentionally insensitive or callous.

Inasmuch as my focus was/is the specific behavior associated with the belief in the existence of god, I have altered the title of the post to more accurately reflect that focus.

The discussion continues...

Views: 721

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on August 29, 2016 at 8:16pm
Apparently hissy fits and threatened faux-flounces get the desired results. Mores the pity.
Comment by Ron Powell on August 29, 2016 at 8:36pm
@SBA; There is some validity to what you're saying here.

However, you should know that I didn't make this adjustment lightly.

I looked at my title within the framework of Koshersalaami's complaint and discovered that the word 'religion' may have been to broad and that the word 'worship' may , indeed, be a better fit.

Remember when I described Simone Biles as 'little'? You protested and someone suggested that I use the word 'petite' instead.

I made the adjustment, not because of your protest, as valid as it was, though I believe her measurements vindicated my use of the word 'little', but because it was the right thing to do.

I believe that to be the case here...

That said, no further adjustments will be made re the title of this post.

Thanks for staying with me and the comment thread....
Comment by koshersalaami on August 29, 2016 at 10:19pm

Firstly, thank you.

If God exists, worship is unnecessary.
Most people engaged in religious activity for the past several thousand years would disagree with this concept. After all, worship exists because of an assumption that God (or another deity) exists, and worship presumably exists for the dual purposes of requesting benefits and expressing gratitude. 

In one respect I agree. I don't think God needs the worship, certainly not to exist. 

If there is no God, worship is pointless.
On its face, true, but even this can be a more complex question than it looks. 
Obviously, if there is proof there is no God, worship is pointless by definition, but let's assume there isn't, because proving that a deity does not exist is pretty difficult. 

If an organization/religion serves a beneficial function to society/mankind, worship may give it a focus and a sense of needed purpose. If people think a (questionably existing) God wants behavior out of them that this people deems moral, then an assumption of God's existence can give impetus and urgency to said behavior which would presumably be a favorable outcome. The assumption of God, erroneous or not, is in and of itself a decent motivator, and prayer makes sense if that assumption is made, 

Comment by Zanelle on August 29, 2016 at 10:42pm

You are all so smart.   I dont think it is difficult to prove that a dieity does not exist.  Zip and it is done.  Imagine.  Imagine there were no religions.  That is what John Lennon was singing about.  It isnt hard to do.   

  As Richard Dawkins said, humans would still act morally if there were no religion.  Some wouldnt, of course, but that is just the way humans are.  We have free will.   People in groups make me nervous.  I /Thou  Martin Buber   the other   

  Global peace ...  some people are wary of global government but I think it will come... especially if there is contact with another planet.   I just read that the SETI program has received a strong signal they are trying to interpret.  There is always hope.

Comment by nerd cred on August 29, 2016 at 11:11pm

Whether or not god needs humans to worship it is moot, I think. Humans need to worship god. Some humans. Of it was the god's actual need, would we even know it?

Comment by koshersalaami on August 29, 2016 at 11:43pm
With no religion I'd end up with a whole lot less community, I'd be more lonely and alienated, and in Token's neighborhood a lot of people wouldn't eat.

Where do people learn to be moral? Does it take a village? What kind of village?
Comment by Zanelle on August 29, 2016 at 11:58pm

Im going to link to the Martin Buber quotes here too.  http://www.azquotes.com/author/2101-Martin_Buber

I believe it takes a global village.  Until we come together and take care of all people there will be those who suffer.  Religion divides.  We learn to be moral like we learn anything...it is survival.  Religion takes us away from the trust we need to see what is real and to make things better.  It is second hand information.   

Comment by nerd cred on August 30, 2016 at 12:05am

It's seeming more and more that some morality is inherent in humans.

At birth, babies are endowed with compassion, with empathy, with th...

I think it's relatively easy to take it away through mistreatment and neglect of a young child. Can religion then replace it? In my experience, sometimes.

Comment by nerd cred on August 30, 2016 at 12:12am

from the Buber file that Z linked:

Nothing so tends to mask the face of God as religion; it can be a substitute for God himself.

Comment by Zanelle on August 30, 2016 at 12:13am


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