Hillary Won the Popular Vote? Update

We'll never know.

Absentee and provisional ballots are not counted unless and untill the race is still undecided after the counting of ballots cast at the polls. If, as in all states this election, the number of absentee EVER counted.

There are several million absentee ballots Absentee ballots are approximately 2/3 Military. Who tend to vote 2/3 republican.

Hillary "won" by 200,000 votes?

very doubtful. But,

We'll never know.

We DO know who won the Electoral college vote.

Because that's what counts.


My authority on how elections work? I did county government software, which includes election tabulation software, for 10 years, all over the eastern united states. I also served as a precinct judge in my county for 3 years, and can tell you exactly how absentee votes are (not) counted in my home county.

In every case, voting is handled at a county level, and is therefore subject to the whims and vagaries of every single county clerk of courts or other county level authority in the country.

What they have in common is a lack of permanent staff and a disinclination to waste time and money on tabulating information that no one requires or funds them to collect. Once they know who won an election beyond the margin that uncounted absentee or provisional ballots could change it, it is a waste of time and money to handle, hand count often, the paper ballots sent in by absentees.

Ballots cast at polling places are overwhelmingly electronic on voting machines. No muss, no fuss, no bother. You can even keep a running total. Elections are overwhelmingly decided by these electronic ballots, beyond the possibility of change by absentee ballots.

On the other hand, absentee and provisional ballots are all some form of cardboard or paper ballot that requires tabulation by handling each and every ballot. If this is done, someone must be paid to do it. No one pays for this tabulation, no one requires the results.

The easy choice is to put the paper ballots into storage until the election is certified, then dispose of them. Does EVERY county authority do it this way? No, I'm sure there are counties that DO count every ballot.

The short answer, though, is that since a majority of counties do NOT count beyond the election result, there never will be an actual count of the “popular” vote.

Views: 259

Comment by Maui Surfer on November 15, 2016 at 9:28pm

No crying when the game is over. But, don't forget either. Lots of violations, but nearly all at the highest level.

Comment by koshersalaami on November 15, 2016 at 10:44pm

It's not 200,000. It's more like a million. A lot of late votes from California.

Comment by JMac1949 Today on November 16, 2016 at 6:30am

I'd ask what difference does it make, but...

Comment by Keith Joiner on November 16, 2016 at 7:19am

They do not count absentee ballots? I dispute that statement. Please provide citations or references. Why would anyone vote absentee in that case? Why do they even allow it?

Comment by Token on November 16, 2016 at 11:01am


The whole business of a national election that is a "snapshot" of voter preference on election day is impossible to begin with. "Rigged" is largely a question of local politics... and ALL politics is local.


As I said, we will never know


That's exactly what local boards of election say....

Comment by Token on November 16, 2016 at 11:43am


see above update

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on November 16, 2016 at 11:49am

Uh, no...  (and its killing me to have to agree with Joiner!)

"The notion that states don't count absentee ballots unless they are sufficient in number to change the outcome has been addressed (and refuted) by Vote.org:

Are absentee ballots counted?

Yes, all votes are counted, whether they're cast in-person or by absentee ballot.  

It is a common misconception that absentee ballots are only counted during very tight races.  This misconception stems from two things: one, absentee ballots are often counted for days after the election since many are coming from abroad; two, absentee ballots are often a small percentage of all voted ballots.  Many elections have a clear winner, so the absentee ballots that are still being counted after election night don't affect the results as predicted right after the polls close.  As absentee voting becomes more popular, however, an increasing number of elections are decided by absentee ballots. "



Comment by nerd cred on November 16, 2016 at 11:49am

I had to go look where you live, Token. Ohio. Of course.

In Minnesota they start counting the absentee ballots as soon as they come in.

Never having had Ken Blackwell, or anyone else in the grip of Diebold, in charge of things, we still use optiscan ballots (not Diebold.) They're tallied on site.

Probably why Hillary won here. Things are done honestly.

Comment by nerd cred on November 16, 2016 at 11:54am

(Sorry about this, Amy.)

Our early voting is also done by absentee ballot - "in-person absentee ballot." It would be stupid not to count them.

Comment by Token on November 16, 2016 at 12:06pm


Sorry, I've been there, done that. The decision to count or not count, in all the states I've set up election software (ie most of the east of the mississippi) is purely a matter left up to each couny clerk of court/election board. Some count, most do not. They rightly do not waste resources on tabulating information that they are not required to collect.

At any rate, my county contains Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and they do not tabulate absentee ballots of military personnell deployed overseas, unless the Republicans are behind in the election.

So, large absentee electorate not counted. Nationwide popular vote count thereby not possible.



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