So much here, now, seems to be a kind of competitive identity group-grievance and/or competitive identity group-back-slapping exercise. It's so useless, demeaning, too, as it assumes a profound lack of self-confidence, pride, intelligence. It has to be off-putting, at the least, to anyone considering this venue.

I hope people will abandon this unnecessary, deadening style of discussion and debate.

Our Salon, so lively and potent at its onset and for quite a time after, would be wholly reinvigorated, a place of surprise and thought and enjoyment for many once again, and with new, interesting participants, and grateful longstanding members.

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Comment by Ron Powell on April 12, 2018 at 10:31am

"Robust discussion, disagreement, debate has always been welcome here, as it should be, and fostered."

There's no way to argue or disagree with this or the thrust of your post...

If people here would remove the vitriolic 'ad hominem'' from the discourse what you envision might be achieved...


Comment by Barbara Joanne on April 12, 2018 at 10:31am

I hear you!  

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 10:31am

I think you may want "eliminate", or a synonym of it, before "vitriolic".

And sure, it'd be necessary, tho insufficient, bc even couched in softer language, few truly want to read, on and on, about how one member's identity-group is more deserving of pity, sympathy, and/or congratulation than another's.

Comment by The Songbird on April 12, 2018 at 10:37am

I sure appreciate the dialog, that 's rather the PURPOSE of writing in the first place!  Reaching out, receiving, as Anna said, the human condition from other's perspectives.  I also like that you, Jon, are a real impetus FOR discussion, and I am guilty of 'not commenting,' as your snippet bemoaned, but -- to what end? is what I ask myself.  Kosh is right too, to simply include the parts you wish to engage in, but I was not aware of a 'like' place? .. Friend, is that it?  So you get a notice when a 'Friend' posts?  That way, you can include yourself in the thread.  But, like other social platforms, I too wish it WAS more about camaraderie and question, asking, rather than refusing, refuting, daring, accusing.  No one is wrong anyway, and to question is a pathway to growing broader, an invitation to fix what is ailing rather than to take a stand against answer.  Isn't the whole idea to accept, assimilate, include, compromise? - how can we all get along better?  No one wants to really BE upset, but it is an essential part of the goal of the calm sought by resolution.  We'll see what the next thread brings, from this thought line.  I've learned a lot just by being included in this one.  Tx, all.  

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 10:38am


Comment by Anna Herrington on April 12, 2018 at 11:19am

There are plenty of posts that generate excellent comment threads that are not just debates, one of my favorites happened last summer when trig, Julie, nana and I shared stories on a simple post. It's the going beyond a two word comment, adding a 'this reminds me of' type comment, or whatever, that generates a sharing of views and anecdotes that invites and includes... and this takes someone who has time to be here on a day off or whatever and finding a *welcome*....again, imho.

As to those avoiding due to complaints of other posts and type post comments, my thought is, where's your post to make a change? if you're actually interested in being here and making a change...

...and I say it in actual question, not judgment, as I also get not bothering. I've done both, depending.

But one cannot expect only others to make the more diverse postings/do the work, if change is actually wanted.

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 11:23am

Thank you again, Anna! 

Comment by alsoknownas on April 12, 2018 at 12:48pm

I'm going to have to look around and see if I can spot some of this quarreling being discussed.


Comment by Ron Powell on April 12, 2018 at 1:11pm

"I think you may want "eliminate", or a synonym of it, before "vitriolic"..."

No, Jon I mean that people should remove thevitriolic language from the discussions, debates, or arguments.

"...few truly want to read, on and on, about how one member's identity-group is more deserving of pity, sympathy, and/or congratulation than another's...."

I don't know if  it's attributable to any particular reading issue, but there is a tendency for people here to read things into what is written rather than attempting to truly comprehend what the author of a post or comment is actually saying...

A common practice here is to put words or thoughts into an assertion or statement that just aren't there  and then,  to ad insult to injury, react to the substituted material as though it is in fact what has been said or conveyed...

The false equivalencies and fallacious arguments complete with name calling and finger pointing abound and run amuck here...

Yes, it is quite enough to discourage even the clearest of heads and stoutest of hearts....

Comment by koshersalaami on April 12, 2018 at 2:09pm

Right after every post on the bottom left, above the comments, is a Like button. If you press it, the button will change, and it will give you a graphic of a heart and then say “Liked it!” Then it will tell you how many people Liked the post. If you click on “12 members like this” or whatever the number is (it’s 12 here now), it will give you a list of who else liked it. Whenever you return to the post, the button will always say Liked it! to let you know you already used the button on a previous visit. 

Friend gives you the capacity to Private Message others. A Friend offer has to be accepted before it activates. 

If you want notification if someone you want to follow posts, go to their home page, look down a few lines under their avatar, and it will say NEW BLOG POSTS (#), the number being how many posts they’ve posted. Click on NEW BLOG POSTS, scroll to the bottom of the last post on that page, and you will see the word Follow in bold, just like the word Follow at the bottom of this post. If you click on Follow where I told you, you will be emailed every time that person writes a post. 

If you click on Follow on the bottom of an individual post, you will get an email every time someone comments on that specific thread, which helps you follow a conversation. Typically, unless you undo it, your own posts automatically engage the Follow function for you, which is how you know when people comment on your blog. 

I hope that helps. 

Agreed. If you have a complaint, write about it. 

I suppose I should have listed a third category of posts. One is political, one is artistic, and one is Other, like personal anecdotes, explanations, reviews, whatever. They often do generate discussions. Sometimes those are friendly, extended discussions. Sometimes they trigger really weird fights out of nowhere. I once wrote a post about how my daughter’s boyfriend didn’t know what Thyme was and referencing Scarborough Fair and a fight broke out in the thread. A couple of years ago I visited Israel and wrote a tourist post about Tel Aviv, mainly artwork and stuff, and was treated to a photograph of a dead Palestinian child in the comments. Sometimes good intentions don’t help. 


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