So much here, now, seems to be a kind of competitive identity group-grievance and/or competitive identity group-back-slapping exercise. It's so useless, demeaning, too, as it assumes a profound lack of self-confidence, pride, intelligence. It has to be off-putting, at the least, to anyone considering this venue.

I hope people will abandon this unnecessary, deadening style of discussion and debate.

Our Salon, so lively and potent at its onset and for quite a time after, would be wholly reinvigorated, a place of surprise and thought and enjoyment for many once again, and with new, interesting participants, and grateful longstanding members.

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Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 8:36am

Good Thursday to all.

Comment by marshall bjohnson on April 12, 2018 at 8:54am

Wonderfully wrought, reflective and necessary words. We all live here would be lovely too except we don’t, thus our community is attenuated by this limited medium. I have felt demeaned denigrated and diminished by nearly everyone on this forum. But now I am mostly shunned. I don’t think like most people. And that scares most people. So it is easy to be the boogeyman in a world of fear and gracelessness. We are ultimately only as wise and loving as our collective choices. No one gets to opt out. As Shakes states profoundly, “words, words, words...”

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 8:57am

We must prize out-of-box thinkers. 

Thanks, Marshall.

Comment by Dicky Neely on April 12, 2018 at 9:05am

Hear hear Jonathan!

Comment by koshersalaami on April 12, 2018 at 9:09am

I partake of this exercise defensively only. I shouldn’t have to. 

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 9:11am

We, none of us, have to allow ourselves to be drawn into that kind of back/forth.

Comment by The Songbird on April 12, 2018 at 9:11am

Hi, Jonathan .. Thanks for the message, and I assume you are referring to 'Conversational' posts rather than just writers playing editor for/with one another?  I too see a lot of 'thread' posts that are more blog, discussion, than just writing attempts, but that is what this site has been for me.  Not many people know of me, or comment, at least not as much as the previous site many of us hopped from, Open, but - 'tis what 'tis.  I kinda know what you mean about "me too!" or "do you agree - or NOT?" faceoffs.  I just don't entertain those, and I guess those people, like another site, fb, it's only as inclusive as the people you let onto your page.  Each of our purposes are used in the way we choose, but - to rant against things is only a way of saying we're not getting what we want.  You can create that yourself by being the result wanted instead of a challenge/dare to it.  

Only discussion instead of dissent, conversation instead of conflict, opens the gateway to what fear is underneath the need to have agreement - or dis - to cement a view?

I like this site because it gives me a capability to play with what I write by melding a graphic with it; not something you can really do with a simple typewriter.  My explorations in the actual SEARCH for a graphic is the joy to me.  My main prob is in the limitations of formatting, but eh - ya work around that.  I just like seeing it placed together; it's like a journal for me.  Maybe it cements/furthers my own thought, by remembering it in a picture?; much more succinct than my ongoing Thousand Words!  The words come easy; depicting them? - noooot so much!  But once found, that is how I assimilate my 'timeline,' or 'genealogy' of my own development as a writer. 

If something feels abrasive, only you know why.  To engage or disengage is your own answer.  

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on April 12, 2018 at 9:14am

Robust discussion, disagreement, debate has always been welcome here, as it should be, and fostered.

Comment by Anna Herrington on April 12, 2018 at 9:30am

I hear you, Jon, and this is hardly the first  ; )

And yet when people do post other types of themes, from photography to celebrating an event or a personal update, poetry, on and on - and people here do that - the inspiration to do more seems to disappear when the only comments/acknowledgment show up on the 'debates.' Or the post-er runs you off with perceived superiority and/or rigid stance or whatever lack deemed, which happens with several people who post here, not just the one woman that tends to get the blame, er... the focus.

That aspect doesn't really get attention whenever a 'can we be more diverse in post themes' or a 'can we be more tolerant' type posts do get posted, like yours today. I don't mind a debate or flat out brawl, frankly - sometimes - but too much of the camaraderie has disappeared or been taken for granted or frankly, those leaders in that died - and it does get old when it's the same politics/race/religion rants that are the only ones that get (the same, too often) comments.... funnily enough, often by those who only show up for them but then also say they tired of all the 'debates' and that's why they don't come around as often - and meanwhile, crickets at the friendlier posts.

That aspect requires actual participation and some compassion and tolerance and personally, stories.

The whole country, the whole planet, fer gawd's sake, is crying out for camaraderie, tolerance and compassion, it's no surprise we are here, too.

My thoughts before the littlest grandgirl shows up and takes over my morning...

Comment by Anna Herrington on April 12, 2018 at 9:31am

Oh, I missed a lot of comments posted while writing the above comment  : )


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