Finally we get to "How the Russians did it." The vote total WAS effected by curbing the ability of certain voters to vote.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/us-election-officials-stil...

It cannot be overstated that NO election audit had been performed for the 2016 election in regards to the Russian hacking until very recently.  These specific and directed investigations being conducted by The Department of Homeland Security are now revealing that the Russians did, in fact, suppress Democratic vote totals through voter suppression by hiding their crime within the expected Democratic voter suppression now common in US elections.

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Comment by JMac1949 Today on June 22, 2017 at 9:02am

The long term problem is how the fabric of the traditional 20th Century Democratic Party has been unraveling since LBJ signed the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and said, "We have just lost the South for a generation."  Since then only Bill Clinton and Obama have managed to get elected with a majority in Congress or get re-elected to a second term.  Like Will Rogers used to quip: "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."

Comment by JMac1949 Today on June 22, 2017 at 10:19am

Correction: When I wrote ...Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Florida... in referring to the 2016 Electoral College vote, I meant to write...Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Florida..."  in any case it is what is was and the only thing anyone can do about it is quit bitching, get our fat butts off the couch and go out to vote in 2018 and 2020.

Comment by MV Neland on June 22, 2017 at 11:40am

Thx for clarifying the purpose of my post, koshersalaami. It is about one thing - electoral integrity of our electing nechanism, and not about the merits, integrity or campaign decisions of candidates. The latter is important here to me in that the assessment of how badly HRC alledgedly ran her campaign and how alledgedly expertly Trump Team ran Trump's, they matter only where voter suppression and Russian hacking were used.  The election was determined in what turned out to be five irfinary states becoming key electoral votes where one Wisconsin judge estimated that Cross Check removed over 3,000,000 mainly black voters in those five Rudt Belt states that determined Trump's win by 77,000 votes. Had voter suppression, still allowing for gerrymandering, been prevented as it should have, HRC woukd have won by tge expectrd margins she was predicted to carry those five states.

This was being argued long before Russian interference was more fulky appreciated, but because it us so endemic and racially driven, it goes largely unaddressed but by quiet court case by quiet court case...usually in the years that follow the crime in the hopes of preventing it in the next.

I, as do others, argue that this partivular weakness, our racial blindness to thus gross inequality, was exploited by the Russians in some coordination with individuals within the RNC. Rachel Maddow is arguing that the targeted voting districts where varioys disruptiobs were chronuc in the election were most likely Democratic. Both paths lead upon the other. Only the emphasis is different.

Something largely overlooked in our review and laying blame or credit for the unexoected outcome of tge 2016 election us that Democrats in general were expected to win big and did not. Dud everyone of those candidates run bad campaigns?  Were they flawed, too? As ut turns out, tgere is as much evidence for the Russian attack as being waged to hurt HRC as any and all Democratic candidates while promoting Republicans who would not have won without all the shenanigans. The Russian hacking was extensive, multipronged, and embedded deeply in bith our voter rolls and our candudate campaigns.

To these facts, one can now argue that without such interference, HRC woukd have won by a landslide given her popular vote total wuth a clear mandate, and the sebate would be Dems up 2 - 4 sesrs over Reps, with close to a third of the house seats retaken by Democrats. But, the Russians saw to it that didn't happen. The answer to why?  Me thinks we need to ask some folks over in the RNC and in the house and senate as to why.  We have to wonder, as is Rachel Maddow, why an RNC expert computer hack placed half the voting data in the US on an unprotected server easiky accessed with a simple url. We gave to adk if the many trips made by GOP senators to Russia beginning in 2014 to attend political conservative religious white supremacist conferences on how to influence election outcomes relates in any way to what happened here as they applied their new knowledge. We need to wonder a lot about Paul Manafort's resume of manipulating elections for the right price. We need to wonder about the co

 

Comment by MV Neland on June 22, 2017 at 12:43pm

Con't...wonder about the coincidence of financial ties in Trump's cabinet choices with Russian oligarchs, beginning with Trump himself. We need to wonder about the prevalence of GOP voter suppression and gerrymandering and expose their motivations whike also asking the question - how far are they willing to go? How far DID they go...to win?

France saw this coming and averted a similar disaster. Then again, their culture in general, and thus their institutions, are far less naive. They saw Marine Le Pen and Putin and knew what it meant. They understand unsolicited outside control. They understand political capitulation with an enemy. They understand mounting a resistance.

America is a most imperfect democracy and my ONLY reason for defending it is that it is also the most racially diverse, with the promise of better to come - the inclusion and representation of many, many more...all mixed up, in drag and straight as can be, praying to different gods, rich, poor, in between, different kinds of people, abilitues, visions, together eager to try new technologies, wanting their taxes to create a social safety net instead of being siphoned off to subsidize the wealthy, struggling towards greater fairness and public common abundance. This worldview strikes terror into the hearts of Russian oligarchs and American political cartels alike. Given the stakes, i think plans were made.  We are just experiencing the latest, perhaps the largest, of the sea changes back to oligarchy here as well.  

So, for me, 2016 isn't about how well candidates ran their campaigns. For me, the 2016 election is about how it was run, by whom, and why. It is about how 77,000 votes decided an election of millions.

Comment by J.P. Hart on June 23, 2017 at 2:57pm

Hush my mouth, dear MVN, if this is a 'false corollary'. Indeed if that proverbial Dylanesque 'foreign sound' is the sleeping giant USSR, we could readily posit that the Administration doesn't give a hoot about the 2018 midterm. . . . If we agree that money has no nationality nor sovereign allegiance, (e.g. Citizens United et.al.), perhaps the contemporaneous 24 month window of opportunity is nothing other than a smash and grab for that much bally-hoed insouciant cadre of oligarchs. Regardless whose flag flaps atop the bean stalk. This anger with HRC, in my humble opinion, is unfair and datblame wrong direction. Complacency and a concerted underestimation of POTUS DJT & Co: glamor, ribald militarism, subliminal expertise and perhaps yeah, clandestine suppression or our priceless franchise apparently has cast our fate.

One eye open and simply: Y-IKE!  

Comment by MV Neland on June 24, 2017 at 1:00am

James, I enjoyed reading your droll response. Not nearly enough of that in the world today. Yes, we stand waist deep in the quicksand stunned as to how we got there. The more optimistic of us, all the while shout firmly - "Hey, you there! You with the rubles spilling from your pockets! Don't you dare run! You're not going to get away with this, scoundrel!"

Comment by Drew-Silla on June 24, 2017 at 3:05am

I find Rachel Maddow's hair-do nearly as disturbing as the Trumpee. Does this mean I'm an Independent?

Comment by Drew-Silla on June 24, 2017 at 3:19am

And by the way, VM;  if you're just now understanding how the Russians *did it* I recommend you curl up some day soon with War and Peace: The Dummies Edition

Comment by MV Neland on June 24, 2017 at 4:19am

Drew, i welcome a good reportee, but over what are you starting this fight?

Comment by Drew-Silla on June 24, 2017 at 4:39am

To quote Marlon Brando: "Waddaya got?" Moving outside the metasphere for a moment however, and speaking strictly in real time, I am starting this fight over your apparent adulation for bloviating MSM figures like Rachel Maddow, and perhaps also over the fact that you just now typed "reportee" yet for some reason expect me to take you seriously. 

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