Finally we get to "How the Russians did it." The vote total WAS effected by curbing the ability of certain voters to vote.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/us-election-officials-stil...

It cannot be overstated that NO election audit had been performed for the 2016 election in regards to the Russian hacking until very recently.  These specific and directed investigations being conducted by The Department of Homeland Security are now revealing that the Russians did, in fact, suppress Democratic vote totals through voter suppression by hiding their crime within the expected Democratic voter suppression now common in US elections.

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Comment by JMac1949 Today on June 22, 2017 at 7:13am

Not sure but I expect that HRC's poorly managed campaign suppressed more votes than the Russians or Republican Voter ID Laws and district gerrymandering.  Hell the behavior of all candidates from all parties was so craven and corrupt that for the first time since 1972, I didn't bother to vote in 2016:

Comment by koshersalaami on June 22, 2017 at 7:37am

JMac,

That's real bullshit. No matter how inept Hillary was, we have foreign interference in what turned into a close election. Even if the election was teetering on the edge of a cliff, tilting it is tilting it. All the Clinton campaign's ineptness did was make its impact visible and viable. We now have a blogger here wondering if he should be packing heat because of the potential impact of this Attorney General endangering his life - comment posted this morning. That election had real consequences for some people.

This is like excusing treason on the grounds that we were probably losing the war anyway. 

Let's be clear about what this isn't. This is NOT an issuse of Clinton campaign sour grapes. Hilary's electoral career is presumably over, whether or not she acknowledges it. This is an issue of how democratic American elections are and of not tolerating further damage to an already ailing process. 

Regardless of how cynical H.L. Mencken and George Carlin were about American elections, this is a big deal. 

Comment by koshersalaami on June 22, 2017 at 7:49am

By the way, has anyone figured out yet that this means the Russians electorally attacked America's Black population?

Comment by JMac1949 Today on June 22, 2017 at 8:05am

Kosh, that HRC won the popular vote and lost the election is an incontestable fact.  Her campaign made faulty assumptions in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Florida and that was why she lost.  I doubt that the Russians had any real effect on the outcome in those states.  The more plausible explanation is that HRC couldn't draw enough votes from the Democratic urban base to counter balance Republicans and Independent white voter backlash.  Republicans were unified in that they ran against Obama and HRC didn't really run for anything.  The geographic demography of American racism produced a nearly inevitable result in the Electoral College and that's no bullshit:

I'm not a cynic. Quite to the contrary, I'm a founding member of the California Green Party and with the exception of 2008 & 2012 when I voted for Obama, I've voted Green since 1990.  The reason that I didn't vote in 2016 is because Jill Stein, in complete contradiction of all principles of the Green Party, offered the party's nomination to Bernie Sanders.  Unlike Stein, Sanders had the personal and political integrity to refuse the offer.  That kind of overt corruption more than Russian hacking was the "big deal" for me.

Comment by koshersalaami on June 22, 2017 at 8:19am

JMac,

It doesn't matter if Russian interference had any impact in those states. It doesn't matter if Russian interference didn't tilt the election. What matters is the existence of Russian interference and, more importantly, Republican complicity with Russian interference. 

I don't know if it's available recorded but, if it is, find Terry Gross' recent interview on stage in Philadelphia with Joe Biden. What he has to say about the Russians is extremely interesting. 

Comment by koshersalaami on June 22, 2017 at 8:21am

I'm not a fan of Jill Stein. Though I agree with most of her positions, I find her too lightweight for the Presidency. 

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on June 22, 2017 at 8:22am

And what matters to those not next-to terminally cynical is that our process was corrupted by a foreign adversary and almost certainly w the help of the Russian Mob Money Launderer in Chief. 

Comment by JMac1949 Today on June 22, 2017 at 8:25am

BTW: There were plenty of reasons other than Russian hackers, that repressed black and women voters in 2016.  HRC has consistently suffered from misogyny at the ballot box.  Voters from all women over fifty have expressed either outright revulsion or reluctance to vote for HRC, while younger men and women tend to identify as independents will a strong leaning toward Libertarian politics.  Unlike Obama HRC's campaign was unable to motivate urban black voters to come out in big enough numbers on election day in 2016.  Republican voter repression legislation passed since Obama was elected also contributed to lower outcome.

Pointing at Putin is no way to address the very real problems that traditional Democrats face with the American electorate.  The old coalition of Union Labor, Progressive and Liberal whites and Urban Minorities is unraveling and that brand recognition has gone blurred and stale. 

Comment by Jonathan Wolfman on June 22, 2017 at 8:45am

jmac   she was not a good enough candidate    (i also believe bernie woulda been worse and as president i doubt he could organise a two-car funeral   she would have been a good president )  the idea that she and the current president are of one piece   it is an idea proffered by foolish people (at best)

Comment by koshersalaami on June 22, 2017 at 8:54am

JMac,

The post isn't about where the Democrats have gone wrong. I agree about a lot of them and I watch it continuing as the Democratic Party puts moderate House candidates up and they all get their heads handed to them. If we want to improve the country and also motivate our own base, we need people in Bernie's mold, not Hillary's. Centrism may have been the only feasible way to stop Trump by November of 2016, but centrism can't be the future of the Democratic Party if it's going to be politically viable or reverse awful trends we've faced in national politics. 

This post is about foreign interference and Fepublican complicity in foreign interference. This is not a post about results so much as about process. This might very well be about treason. 

And, politically, it has the potential to be about treason in coordination with racism. From what it looks like now, Republicans and Russians cooperated to suppress Black votes. 

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