A Conversation About the Utility of Violence

N: Tildy just now almost caught another rat. She had it in her mouth but then it flopped around and went "meep" and got away
She didnt expect the meep
Or the flopping
But she is adjusting her tactics
We planted lettuces saturday and the rats ate half of em
So her work here is important
I've been reading all night about cameras. My first major purchase after paying L back several thousand $ is going to be a camera.
P: Chicken wire and liquid fence.
N: Liquid fence?
P: Spray it on the plants.
N: Ah
Will check it out
We're also going to install a solar-powered electric fence
For the fucking raccoons
P: Good for Tildy! She needs to learn the head shake
N: They keep gettin in the pond
P: Water is manna to racoons
N: She has the head shake down with her Hee-Haw, but these rats move so fast she's still stymied
Theyre fast
I'm torn between the Canon EOS Rebel T7i and the Canon D80
P: City rats
N: They are!
We live in the hood here for real
P: Have you been to a camera Store to play with them?
N: Not yet. I need to do that. Whichever of the two I decide on, I'm also gonna get a Panasonic Lumix FZ80
Its what they call a bridge camera
Way less expensive than a dslr but has a 60x zoom on it
P: Wow! You can get spy pictures
N: I can! Wildlife shots mostly, tho. And I gotta get a laptop, a assault rifle, and a compressor and nailgun, and a truck...
P: An assault rifle?
N: And a radial arm chopsaw and a Dewalt 20volt cordless drill and impact tool combo and some underwear
Im going to join the John Brown Gun Club
Aka, Redneck Revolt
They countermarch against Nazis etc
With guns
P: Sounds interesting
N: Leftists with guns. We need that, unfortunately
P: I'm not sure I agree, violence escalates. And Ghandi
N: Yes. Other people I've told this to have expressed similar reservations
P: Too many people carrying guns, someone's going to "fear for their life" and a lot of people will die
Then martial law
N: But, I have long been a proponent of "Peace, love and understanding or I'll cap your ass."
Its my nature
They threaten violence
Pacifism wont fix shit
P: The exact thing the paramilitary says they are keeping guns to avoid is going to happen because they have guns
N: Maybe
But they keep stockpiling guns, so wht shouldnt leftists?
P: What do you think the end result will be?
N: I dont know
Its scary out there
I no longer recognize our country
P: They stockpile guns because they're afraid
I no longer recognize the world
Too many people
And because they want to enforce their will on others
N: That's the whole problem
Fear = aggression
P: Education cancels fear
N: We are vicious, cannibalistic, overly intelligent primates
Yes, true
And education is viewed as anathema in this country
So what do you do?
P: I share knowledge where I can and hope to trigger doubt. It's a losing battle but it's all I got
And I avoid demonstrations because I'm too hot headed.
N: That is a good strategy. But when I look at the way fascism has exploded since Trumps election I feel the need to do something concrete about it
Im sick of talking
Ya know?
P: Convince the apathetic non voters to vote
N: Action
P: Start a political blog on a site that people read
You'd be a great rabble rouser
N: Ignorance and selfishness and fear are seen as virtues now. 
Ah... Yes I would!
P: Convince the people who don't vote because they think it's useless that it's not
N: That is a big part of what Redneck Revolt tries to do
Its not just about guns
It's about creating a dialogue outside the fascist narrative
P: And show the fraidy cats that their guns show them up as cowards
Dialogue with guns isn't going to change anything
N: And to offer people who are justifiably pissed off and afraid that there is an alternative to fascism
Thats the John Brown Gun Club
P: Why do they need guns?
The pen is mightier than the sword
N: To countermarch against fascists with guns
P: And someone will start shooting
N: Something fascists in this country do is assume that the left are a bunch of tofu eating, overly intellectual navel-gazers
P: Guns won't change that
N: The fascists need to be disabused of that notion
P: So toss cabers.
Do extreme fighting
N: They need to understand that violence will meet reciprocal violence
P: Ok. Just don't shoot any civilians
N: "You got guns? Well, so do we motherfuckers."
No, never
P: I see nothing but bad from this. My fascist co-worker believes that liberals need to give up their guns so he can be safe.
N: He is full of shit
P: He would absolutely shoot if faced with a scary liberal with a gun
N: Shoot or shit?
Fuck him
P:I know he's full of shit. He's also an ass who believes in the conservative way as the only way.
N: Fuck all of the MAGA-cap-wearing fucktards
And the Chee-To they rode in on
P: I agree. But carrying a gun to one of their rallies is a bad idea. Right now they look like idiots because they are pointing guns at unarmed counter protesters. If you show up with guns they will use it as proof that they need to escalate
N: Theyve done about wore my patience out
P: Which is why I think you need to use words
People read what you write
N: When they point guns at unarmed people they win. Hence the Redneck Revolt
P: No they don't win. They lose. Just like the cops lose when they shoot unarmed people
N: In rural areas fascist Nazi fucks are intimidating people
P: I know, I live there
N: ts getting worse all the time
P: But I have chosen to not be intimidated
They lose if they shoot
N: Leftists, and just decent people generally, stay away when the KKK comes to town
Fuck that
P: It's a face off
N: It needs to be
Face off or stay home
P: People didn't stay away from Charlottesville
And the counter protesters didn't carry guns
N: And what happened? A woman is dead and theyre charging that one black dude who was beat bloody by Nazis with assault
Charging HIM with assault
P: And the next few right wing rallies didn't happen because they knew they lost
Mass counter protest works
Why didn't anyone help the black guy?
N: Because he was a black guy
P: And I need to get up, I'm going to be late to work.
N: Ah
Of course you do
P: Rant away, just share it with the world
N: Drive safe to work, have an excellent day
P: You, too

Views: 1211

Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 12:27pm

Well, yeah, this post has "the Utility of Violence" right in the title, so I guess so, AKA. The thing is, though, while I grew up around guns and hunting, I haven't killed anything larger than a spider since I shot a rabbit one day almost 30 years ago and realized how much more beautiful it had been while still alive, and also that I didn't need it for food or for any other reason at all. Lee has a pellet gun here that he thinks we should kill the raccoons with, but I've been putting that off as I search for nonlethal ways of discouraging the ringtailed bastards. It's kinda funny, though - I posted this conversation on Facebook too, and Loriannne told me there about a motion-activated scarecrow that squirts water at nocturnal koi pond vandals, but she didn't explain how that might help with white supremacists.

Makita... they pretty much led the way into the era of cordless powertools, and they still make excellent equipment, but for jobs that call for more or less constant, heavy use of a drill over the course of an 8 hour day - setting 3" deck screws for instance, as per the kind of carpentry Trig did for a living - nothing will handle it better than a Dewalt. They didn't always used to be that good, but with the introduction of their 20volt compact a couple years ago they have upped their game considerably. Milwaulkee comes pretty close, as do a couple others, but for serious, professional-grade cordless drill requirements, there is no substitute these days for the Dewalt 20v Max...

Comment by alsoknownas on October 18, 2017 at 12:46pm

 Except for the rats I've never hunted.

In Seattle the "Utility of Violence" was put to play on the street this past weekend.

I'm sure there must be a mid-point that could work.


Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 1:13pm

I agree, and obviously I should have named this post something else, but that's what happens sometimes when one has had too many Fat Tire Ales. Just as one or two of us mistook the meaning of Anna's comment to be something other than what she intended, I think she and some other very nice people on this thread may have mistook my meaning. In my case, that is no one's fault but my own, but once again I'll blame Fat Tire Ale,  plus "A Conversation About the Utility of Being Prepared To Meet Violence With Reciprocal Violence if Given no Other  Choice in the Matter" doesn't roll off the tongue quite as smoothly. What I am trying to say is, I am by no means advocating violence as any kind of prescription for the challenges faced by this country - please reference my comment from yesterday that excerpts an article describing the John Brown Gun Club's mission statement. 

Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 1:32pm

For conveniece's sake I'll re-post that comment here:

Redneck Revolt, aka the John Brown Gun Club...  As I said to Phyllis, they aren't about guns as much as they're about offering people an alternative to the fascist narrative.  Here's an excerpt from an article about them - 

In the infancy of the Trump presidency, a new community defense network is espousing anti-racist and anti-capitalist politics to build coalitions in cities, small towns, and rural areas across America.

Redneck Revolt recruits predominantly poor and working class white people away from reactionary politics. The organization advances an analysis of their class condition and white supremacy’s role in upholding the wealth and privilege of a small, white elite.

Redneck Revolt inserts themselves into overwhelmingly white spaces—NASCAR races, gun shows, flea markets in rural communities, and country music concerts—to offer a meaningful alternative to the white supremacist groups who often also recruit in those spaces.


To me, that sounds like a pretty decent way to reach out your hand. 

Comment by alsoknownas on October 18, 2017 at 2:15pm

I read through the link.

While I'm enamored of the idea of fighting back, I will admit to a trepidation about street clashes. I've been hit with billy clubs, maced and pepper fogged and think that was mild comp[ared to how this nation may yet erupt.

Uniforms and common apparel give me the heebie-jeebies too. Something changes in people when they wear them. In the event of such street level confrontations they serve to tell those on the street who it is that likely has their back, but they are just as identifying to the opposition. Those things concern from a namby pamby safe seat.

I don't know. One quote stood out;"These confrontations have not turned violent. There weren’t brawls or property damage like has been seen in Berkeley and Portland."

This is Portland. I'm not imagining that things can turn quickly. They have here and I expect will in the future. Most recently after intense criticism the police stood back and let white supremacists and Antifa clash. They did not step forward and create a barrier as they have previously. it was surprising to all and guess who wanted to quit early without a phalanx of armored poilce in front of them.

 You may know more we should expect here. Our new Police Chief is a 42 year old black woman from Oakland. Her name is Outlaw. Chief Outlaw. We all wonder how the street clashes will be handled in the future. I believe she was Deputy Chief there.

In a side tangent that seems connected to me, I would recommend a movie that takes blind allegiance to task. It focuses on white people who came to the realization what it was they were asked to do as Confederate Civil War soldiers. It is as far as movies go, based on truth.

Did you know that some nearly 70% of southern Civil War soldiers deserted? Sure, some did not want to be shot but many others had reasons of dignity not to fight.

Here's a link to the trailer for " The Free State of Jones" :

Comment by Tom Cordle on October 18, 2017 at 5:14pm

I gotta get a laptop, a assault rifle, and a compressor and nailgun, and a truck ...

sounds like you might need to get control of your wanter

Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 5:33pm

Chief Outlaw, hahaha, that is so bad-ass!

Regarding uniforms, I think the only thing Redneck Revolt members do in that regard is wear red bandanas. That is in part to prevent doxing from militias and alt-right organizations, which has been at times a serious issue for them, and in part a homage to the Battle of Blair Mountain in 1921. That was the largest armed confrontation on US soil since the Civil War, and the 10,000 armed coal miners who took part in the strike wore red bandanas as a way to recognize each other as they fought for days against thousands of lawmen and strike breakers.

I had read that statistic about Confederate deserters. It's pretty striking, and makes one kinda reassess the old adage, "What if they gave a war and no one came." I will definitely check out The Free State of Jones, and on a related tangent, I highly recommend the book and movie Cold Mountain if you're not already acquainted with 'em.  


Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 6:21pm

 Hey there Tom. Nah, my wanter's working fine, and it may not sound like it from reading my list up there, but I am a person of modest needs. The thing is, though, I got carjacked about a year back and lost all my equipment and pretty much everything else I own. Aside from the assault rifle, and the laptop, and, well, the cameras I guess, that is all stuff which I need to make money, and since I just sold my house a few days ago I'm fixing to replace some of the many things I've lost one way or another during the previous 4 years as my life fell completely the fuck apart. I realize I sound all materialistic and shit here, but not having a camera (for example) is for me approximately the same as not having a right arm, so, a-shopping I will go...

Comment by nanatehay on October 18, 2017 at 7:41pm

And Amy - I get not liking Green Day. It is totally wrong-headed and a disgrace to your Doc Martens, but I get it. 

Comment by Anna Herrington on October 20, 2017 at 7:51pm

nana, "...imho our country is nearer embracing genuine fascism at this moment in time than it ever has been." I think you might be right. On first read of this post, my mind went to global cycles and cycles of time. That's how my work days go and it's what was on my mind at the time, but that likely didn't help any to clear intentions I might have had about it when I spontaneously wrote that paragraph, but different eras was what led me to the lament, when has the world ever been rosey and fair, or whatever I said.... and in hindsight I was feeling the whole #metoo thing deeply, that women have to have some hashtag trend to get attention about sexual harassment and rape. That sense of despair about it entered in, too.

Sorry to contribute to any wading through mud while reading my comment. I kind of liked it, though, I must add. So often words are not spontaneous eruptions for me.

Amy, I can't say I can live by these or any ideals every day, not by a long shot, and some humans are so depraved and disgusting it makes 'ideals' seem naive or trivial. But I do believe in human evolvement, spiritual evolvement too if one tends in that direction, but I mean human evolvement at the moment and do think we humans will either destroy ourselves and the planet or devolve into scary dystopia or whatever it is and will be worse? or rise up and evolve, so what do we want, better or worse, gone, devolve, evolve? I try to do my part to evolve, but it's not easy and some days I rather think: bullshit, frankly. ... ...but then, I was molested as a child, I still don't do the touch thing so well; to reach out is a challenge, and honor to the receiver, personally (while sounding vain but I don't mean it that way... I did just throw my shoulders back though). I have to feel SAFE for closeness and not many humans are that cool. (I must seem all over the place - ha!) I do think we humans have potential, though, with evolvement. I really do.

I really like that MLK quote his daughter Bernice tweeted that I posted here.... somewhere. That's the thing, imho.

That you were wrung through the foster care wringer makes my heart ache for you. We, hubs and I, went through two years of classes and buying a house and trying to ace our finances enough to be foster parents, but then the recession hit and they closed our file. Some of what we learned kids can go through was incredibly difficult, even worse when the admittance it often happened in foster care too just made me so angry.....

that is one huge area that needs our attention if we want any kind of planet bettering, personally, the lives and safety of and for children.



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