• There is too much racism in law enforcement and sentencing and government at all levels should mobilize to address this.
  • There is too much money in politics and Citizens United should be overturned.
  • There should be strict separation of Church and State in government and the Hobby Lobby decision should be overturned.
  • LGBTQ rights should be respected and those populations should be protected by government.
  • Global warming is real and American policy should be to combat global warming internationally and domestically, including by supporting the American renewable energy industry.
  • Womens' rights should be protected, particularly in the areas of choice, equal pay, equal access to promotions, and maternity issues.
  • Israel should withdraw from the settlements and/or compensate the Palestinians for them and the Palestinians should get a state.
  • America's (and the world's) wealth is way too polarized, so government should take steps to distribute wealth way more evenly than it is currently distributed.The wealthy should be taxed at higher rates.
  • All Americans should have health insurance, preferably single payer, and all Americans should have access to health care.
  • Minorities have their political, economic, and educational access artificially limited in all sorts of ways. Government should expend more effort on reversing this. 
  • High speed internet should be equally available to all Americans and net neutrality should not be replaced by a commercially based tiered system.
  • The firearms industry should face more regulation than it currently does in order to increase public safety, including requiring background checks on private firearm sales.
  • The petroleum industry should not be subsidized and should be held accountable for environmental damage. Environmentally dangerous and damaging actions by the petroleum industry should be curtailed, including fracking, pipelines in environmentally sensitive areas, and offshore drilling.
  • The environment in general should be more protected than it currently is, as seen in places like Flint, Michigan.
  • There is insufficient transparency in campaign funding, so we don't always know who is backing whom, and the public should have access to that information.
  • Government should respect the privacy of Americans and not spy on us.
  • Government should respect and protect the rights of Native Americans, including on issues involving pipelines routed through sacred areas. 
  • Government should not increase the privatization of government functions in general. Where privatization has started to occur, we should reverse that trend, including in prisons and military contracting. American highways should not be sold off to the private sector, nor should Federal lands. Social Security should under no circumstances be privatized. 
  • Antitrust actions should be used way more than they currently are.
  • There should be stricter FCC limits on how few companies can own how many media outlets in any given market. Standards used to be stricter and we should return to that. Media companies have become too powerful because they have become too close to monopolistic. 
  • Corporate officers who break the law, particularly in areas that cost taxpayers millions/billions, should be held personally responsible by the law. "Personally responsible" means doing time for egregious offenses, not just paying fines. Deterrents need to be significant enough to actually work.
  • Financially predatory practices and risky financial practices on the part of banking and insurance institutions should be heavily regulated. 
  • The government should not be in the business of supporting private k-12 education but should be in the business of supporting public education more, particularly in poor areas with insufficient tax bases to educate their kids adequately.
  • The Federal Government should hold States accountable for election practices that disenfranchise Black voters disproportionately.
  • The Federal Government should take action to end Gerrymandering. Districts must not be drawn by one political party.

How many of you can name half a dozen members of Our Salon who disagree with any of the above points?

The truth is that there is remarkable political unanimity on Our Salon when it comes to what people would like to see happen, with very few exceptions. Though there are a ton of political arguments here, that's not what they're about. They often pretend to be about allegedly assuming that others here don't hold these priorities, but that assumption is usually false. The arguments are sometimes about which of these priorities are more important to any given individual than others but the real core of most political arguments here involves how to get there. 

Sometimes it helps to remember that.

Views: 1127

Comment by nanatehay on April 20, 2017 at 11:11pm

yep

Comment by moki ikom on April 21, 2017 at 1:35am

ours reality in a nutshell

Comment by Ron Powell on April 21, 2017 at 5:07am

Most of the 'arguments'  here aren't about politics or ideology.

Comment by Token on April 21, 2017 at 5:26am

A Liberal ( libertarian?) reply to the politics of Oursalon..... I keep saying there are issues we can work on, if we can stop calling names for ten minutes....


  • There is too much racism classism in law enforcement and sentencing and government at all levels should mobilize to address this.

  • There is too much money in politics and Citizens United should be overturned. (This is too complex an issue to be addressed merely by “Citizen's United” overturn.. swings the pendulum too far the other way.. preferably all candidates restricted to venues and budgets)

  • There should be strict separation of Church and State in government and the Hobby Lobby decision should be overturned. The original intent of the establishment clause clause was to prevent the establishment of a state religion, not to exclude or prohibit the practice of religion in public life. Compare the treatment of Christians to the treatment of Muslims by the liberal state.... More importantly, it is necessary to recognize that Secular Humanism (Rule by Mind, as opposed to Spirit) IS a Religion

  • LGBTQ rights should be respected and those populations should be protected by government. Agreed, however the Rights of “cisGendered” to privacy and non-exposure must also be guaranteed

  • Global warming Climate Change is real BUT the human component remains not clearly defined and American policy should be to combat global warming internationally and domestically, including by supporting the American renewable energy industry. That said, we should do all that is reasonable to insure conservation and ecologically sound practices in energy use.

  • Womens' rights should be protected, particularly in the areas of choice, equal pay, equal access to promotions, and maternity issues.

  • Israel should withdraw from the settlements and/or compensate the Palestinians for them and the Palestinians should get a state. This one is out of my league.. I can't say that the palestinians don't “Deserve” a state, but so long as they remain a threat to the state of Isreal, they are not entitled toone. This is a chicken and egg problem.

  • America's (and the world's) wealth is way too polarized, so government should take steps to distribute wealth way more evenly than it is currently distributed.The wealthy should be taxed at higher rates. Flat tax. 20% from everyone is better than hundreds f thousands to Lawyers to keep from paying Millions

  • All Americans should have health insurance, preferably single payer, and all Americans should have access to health care. Amen

  • Minorities have their political, economic, and educational access artificially limited in all sorts of ways. Government should expend more effort on reversing this.  Government should expend more effort assuring that ALL individuals have equal opportunity, not equal outcome

  • High speed internet should be equally available to all Americans and net neutrality should not be replaced by a commercially based tiered system. Open for debate

  • The firearms industry should face more regulation than it currently does in order to increase public safety, including requiring background checks on private firearm sales. Open for debate

  • The petroleum industry should not be subsidized and should be held accountable for environmental damage. Environmentally dangerous and damaging actions by the petroleum industry should be curtailed, including fracking, pipelines in environmentally sensitive areas, and offshore drilling. Regulated

  • The environment in general should be more protected than it currently is, as seen in places like Flint, Michigan. amen

  • There is insufficient transparency in campaign funding, so we don't always know who is backing whom, and the public should have access to that information.

  • Government should respect the privacy of Americans and not spy on us.

  • Government should respect and protect the rights of Native Americans, including on issues involving pipelines routed through sacred areas.  amen

  • Government should not increase the privatization of government functions in general. Where privatization has started to occur, we should reverse that trend, including in prisons and military contracting. American highways should not be sold off to the private sector, nor should Federal lands. Social Security should under no circumstances be privatized.  amen

  • Antitrust actions should be used way more than they currently are. Amen

  • There should be stricter FCC limits on how few companies can own how many media outlets in any given market. Standards used to be stricter and we should return to that. Media companies have become too powerful because they have become too close to monopolistic.  debateable

  • Corporate officers who break the law, particularly in areas that cost taxpayers millions/billions, should be held personally responsible by the law. "Personally responsible" means doing time for egregious offenses, not just paying fines. Deterrents need to be significant enough to actually work. amen

  • Financially predatory practices and risky financial practices on the part of banking and insurance institutions should be heavily regulated.  Amen, but debateble as to HOW

  • The government should not be in the business of supporting private k-12 education but should be in the business of supporting public education more, particularly in poor areas with insufficient tax bases to educate their kids adequately. Okay... lets hear how, but returning control to the local schools

  • The Federal Government should hold States accountable for election practices that disenfranchise Black voters disproportionately.

  • The Federal Government should take action to end Gerrymandering. Districts must not be drawn by one political party. Way too much a matter of whose ox is being gored

Comment by Ron Powell on April 21, 2017 at 6:03am

@Token; "if we can stop calling names for ten minutes...."

Agreed!

However, wouldn't this be more accurate and apt?:

There is too much RACISM  AND CLASSISM in law enforcement and sentencing and government at all levels should mobilize to address this.

Comment by alsoknownas on April 21, 2017 at 6:20am

The name calling and off topic attacks have dimmed my interest in the site.

Maybe this post will stimulate some interesting discussion. I think "token's" take on matters, while differing from what some may agree with, is also presented respectfully. More of that is needed.

Comment by Token on April 21, 2017 at 6:31am

Ron

"Racism" has become such a loaded word anymore, it's hard to get anyone to agree what it "REALLY " means. As an example of my Point Of View, I would characterize the "Races" involved in law enforcement violence (for example) as the "Blues" and the "Perps" "blues" tend a bit toward “Redneck/cracker”, “Perps” tend toward “Poor/minority(includes “White Trash”)

In employment, the “Races” involved are “College” vs “Non-college”... again, college tends to be white, but a different “White” than the “Blues” ( on whom the “College” look down) and the “Non College” tend to be minority, but also a very high percentage of low income whites.

There IS a problem of Racism, but to think of the Races as simply Black and White has become too simplistic..... There is ALWAYS a discrimination against the other and for ones own kind.... to me the solution is to NOT emphasize RACE, but rather, as MLK said the content of the individual's character.

Comment by Safe Bet's Amy on April 21, 2017 at 6:49am

Gee...  thanks for, once again, paternalistically telling us what we REALLY think.  ...oh, and, also "as usual", you are wrong about at least three of them.

THEN, to top it off, you crow about your silly "How many of you can name half a dozen members of Our Salon who disagree with any of the above points?"  when there are barely 6 people who are here regularly and half of them couldn't name the other five.

Comment by Ron Powell on April 21, 2017 at 7:08am

 @Token; ".. to me the solution is to NOT emphasize RACE, but rather, as MLK said the content of the individual's character..."

That assessment would apply to class as well...

Nonetheless, Racial profiling by cops and racially motivated decisions to prosecute and incarcerate are acutely extant in the criminal justice system and should be addressed in the manner and framework of the issue as it manifested.

Racism in law enforcement is as much a 'real' issue as global warming or sexism re a woman's reproductive rights and the right to choose.

Racism is not an opinion. It is a fact. The power of the color line and how it influences almost every dimension of American (and global) social and political life is not an “unknown unknown.”

The fact that racism overdetermines the positive life outcomes and life chances of white people relative to black and brown people is one of the most consistent and repeated findings in all of the social sciences.

Denying this is not dissimilar from denying the science of global warming. 




 

 

 

Comment by koshersalaami on April 21, 2017 at 7:27am

Token,

Where are the five people who agree with you on any of these points? I'm more than happy to talk about points, but the point of the post is not the merit of these positions so much as their near universality on this site. This is not a manifesto, it's an observation. The reason I wrote it is to point out that most of the battles here are actually not between ideological enemies. We frequently fight like cats and dogs while wanting the same things. This is not true of the Keft and Right in America, who generally do Not want the same things. More than some realize, which is Bernie Sanders' secret, because t there are profound differences between the Koch brothers and most of us. 

However, looking at the last couple of days of Ron and me, we're having the same fight we've had for years, most of it not in public because most of it happened while we were working on Talking To The Wall. His priority is to reveal the extent of racism while my priority is to recruit centrists to fight racism. When those priorities clash, we get into it. 

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